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PostPosted: June 27, 2017, 4:48 am 
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I'm having issues with my Odyssey battery and i am looking for a local replacement. Apart from size, are these a good alternative?

https://www.batteriesplus.com/replaceme ... la20hbsxta
http://www.autozone.com/miscellaneous-n ... 178908_0_0

odyssey specs
http://www.batterymart.com/pdf_files/odyssey_guide.pdf

It looks like odyssey specs their battery's CCA in two different ways. lame.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: June 27, 2017, 5:19 am 
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I can't give you any help you here. My PC680 just didn't live up to all the hype IMO. I have seen others the same physical size with better ratings.

I give Odyssey a big plus for rating their batteries capability in 7 different ways. ]. I see PCA, CCA MCA and HCA, then there is 20 hr rate, 10 hr rate and reserve capacity. But I only see 1 way they rate it for CCA. The CCA rating follows the SAE prescribed method. What is their other CCA method?

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PostPosted: June 27, 2017, 12:52 pm 
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They all look like good batteries that about equivalent. They are what they call now "AGM", which is basically a damp fiberglass cloth that separates the plates. I used the PC680 style, but under a different brand ( same case though ) for decades in my formula car. They are really good at sitting unused for a few years and then being brought back to life. Use in the formula car was pretty hard because it doesn't have an alternator.

What are the issues you're having? I think the ability of the batteries you link to can be guessed by the weight as much as anything because the working part of the battery is lead after all. The spread on the CCA numbers may have as much to do with honesty as anything else...

I had two of the PC680 over the years, sold one with a car. The second one was actually from a computer power supply and had smaller terminals on the same case. It was meant for deep cycling but not heavy cranking loads. It still never failed to start my car though.

Be careful not to over charge them though. Left one on by mistake once and it was hissing from a pressure vent when I remembered it. There isn't much moisture in there so it probably wasn't good for it.

Best feature is they stand up to storage for quite awhile, so you can park your car for the winter and just charge it in the spring. It will likely hold it's charge actually.

Do you have an aftermarket ECU and have you checked the voltage while actually cranking? If it drops very far that might be an issue for you. Check the voltage at the ECU and at the terminals, maybe you're getting a big drop. Connectors and clamps can be an issue. Do you have a separate power lead from the battery to the ECU?

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PostPosted: June 28, 2017, 9:03 am 
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Pretty much the battery isn't holding a charge. If I put it on the changer, wait for it to fully charge and then take it out for a drive, it wont start back up if it turn it off. If I slap battery cables on it, boom, starts up no problem.

So i think it is time for a new battery. Around 3yrs old.

The car also never seems to charge the battery above 12v either but the alternator is new. Maybe something in the wiring since i don't have the ELD wired in?

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PostPosted: June 28, 2017, 9:58 am 
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if you can't get ~ 13.5- 14.5 V on the battery terminals with the engine running, it is not the battery's fault. There is a problem with the charging system. You might want to check that out before spending the $$ for a new battery.

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PostPosted: June 28, 2017, 10:46 am 
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Chuck is right, cars are really 14V systems not 12V. That is everything is designed to run at 14V because that's what the system runs at when the alternator is working. In airplanes they refer to them as 14V and 28V systems. Mostly it matters a lot for the old filament light bulbs, but it makes a pretty big change in the coil current too.

So if your car is not measuring 14V at the battery when the engine is going there is a problem with the voltage regulator or alternator. Do you have the alternator idiot light hooked up? Sometimes that's an issue because it's part of the circuit that turns on the field windings.

The only electrical load in my formula car is the ignition coil and starter motor. Your car has a fuel pump with a significant draw and also an ECU plus maybe other things. It should all work if the alternator is going, but as a total loss system it will come up short in an hour or two.

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PostPosted: June 28, 2017, 11:28 am 
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Yeah i don't think it has ever run 13+ volts so the battery is still the issue considering it worked fine before. I don't do electrical stuff very well (except RF) so asking me to figure out the charging thing will be a nightmare. :(

I think it has to do with the ELD but I really don't know much about it. I only have two wires that are actually hooked up from the alternator. I also need to measure the voltage output from the alternator to verify that it is putting out more than 12volts.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/21-i ... ector.html


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PostPosted: June 28, 2017, 1:07 pm 
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Well actually from what i read, disconnecting the ALT-C wire works just fine (like i have it) and allows over 14v. I can also disable this in the ECU but that's a moot point since it is not connected. I will measure the voltage from the alternator and see what it says.

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PostPosted: June 28, 2017, 1:19 pm 
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I assure you that the alternator not putting out enough voltage is the primary problem. You may also have a battery problem which very likely was caused by not charging high at enough voltage. Batteries need higher voltage than you might expect to balance the individual cells. Otherwise, the battery will charge but eventually one cell will weaken. I think this is your problem. But fix the charging first. Then see if the battery recovers.

The ELD is a device that monitors/measures the current to or from the battery. The Blk/Yel wire provides power to the ELD electronics. The Blk is obviously ground for both the electronics in the ELD and the signal output. (Grn/Red) To the ECU. The ECCU decides when to allow the alternator to work and how much.

Which alt are you using? The Nippon Denso or the Mitsubishi?

Are you running the Factory ECU?

Are you using an ignition lamp? Or a resistor in its place?

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PostPosted: June 28, 2017, 1:26 pm 
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Another variable is the operating temperature of the alternator. I'm using an F-150 truck alternator just because it's common and it fit. When the engine's cool it puts out 14V or so, but an hour later it's down to the low to mid-13s, very predictably. On the to-do list is to run cooling air to it.

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PostPosted: June 28, 2017, 2:23 pm 
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rx7locost wrote:
Which alt are you using? The Nippon Denso or the Mitsubishi?


I dont know.

rx7locost wrote:
Are you running the Factory ECU?


No but its not wired to the alt anyway.

rx7locost wrote:
Are you using an ignition lamp? Or a resistor in its place?


Neither. As far as i remember that wire is cut.

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PostPosted: June 28, 2017, 10:09 pm 
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Two words for anything that sits.

Battery Tender
http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-XM1-5-Automatic-Charger-Maintainer/dp/B004EI6A8K/ref=sr_1_18

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PostPosted: June 28, 2017, 10:19 pm 
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Bent Wrench wrote:


I have a really nice one actually that can be set to the type of battery and it's used all of the time.

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PostPosted: June 29, 2017, 1:53 am 
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I found the following info in the fine print at the bottom of the Odyssey info pdf:
Quote:
Trickle chargers that do not have a regulated trickle charge voltage between 13.5V and 13.8V (no lower than 13.5V and no higher than 13.8V) will cause early failure of the Battery. Use of such chargers with the Battery will also void the Battery’s warranty. For applications where an alternator is present, the alternator must deliver between 14.0V and 14.7V when measured at the Battery’s terminals. Alternators that do not have a regulated charge between 14.0V and 14.7V (no lower than 14.0V and no higher than 14.7V) will cause early failure of the Battery


You can check your trickle charger thingie and see if it's in spec. It sounds like it is, but it will give you a perspective when you measure your car's voltage at the battery terminals while it's running. You should see 14.0 - 14.7 but you may need to give the engine just a few RPM's to see that. It should read over 14.0 by 2000 RPM easily. If you don't see that it means your alternator and it's voltage regulator are not working properly yet.

The diagram of the ELD doesn't seem to give enough info to diagnose this really. It doesn't show what is inside the voltage regulator block. In some systems the alternator warning lamp is part of the voltage regulator circuit.

If you are not using the factory ECU, from the civic forums description the ELD is not doing anything useful.

Honestly, I'm not sure what to suggest. At least remove the ELD and then put in some type of voltage regulator. I think that is the low cost and simple solution. There should be descriptions of how to do this, maybe even your ECU company would recommend a simple voltage regulator?

The last time I had to work on this stuff was a good 30 years ago so I don't have good advice, sorry...

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PostPosted: June 29, 2017, 7:47 am 
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There is a difference between a float or maintenance charger and a Trickle charger.

A trickle charger has no cut off and will over charge a battery.

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