LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently June 24, 2017, 1:27 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: April 20, 2017, 10:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3004
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
I'm using aluminum AN-3 tube nuts/sleeves and 3/16" copper-nickel (NICopp) hard lines for my brake line & fittings. Now comes the question of how to finish off that last connection between those lines and the brake caliper. I'm going to use braided stainless flex lines, I think, and I'll assume they use stainless fittings on those (?). I'll buy some ready-made flex lines, the ones where they have the banjo fitting on the caliper end and NPT fittings on the brake line connector end.

It looks like the brake line end of those braided stainless flex lines is typically a female nut fitting. It looks like NPT 1/4-27 is maybe the standard for such lines??

I can see there is typically a heavy metal tab where the transition from the hard line to the flex line happens. How thick is the typical tab? What is the "standard" kind of adapter/fitting(s), and their metal type, used to bridge between aluminum AN hard line nuts/sleeves and the stainless fittings of the flex lines through the tabs?

I'll put the questions graphically as shown in the sketch below.
Attachment:
Hardline-to-Caliper-2.jpg
Hardline-to-Caliper-2.jpg [ 115.99 KiB | Viewed 329 times ]


Also, are there typically aluminum crush washers on both sides of the banjo fitting (bolt & caliper), or just one between the banjo fitting and the caliper itself?

Any help here would be appreciated.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 20, 2017, 11:03 pm 
Offline
Toyotaphobe
User avatar

Joined: April 5, 2008, 2:25 am
Posts: 4429
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
That's exactly what I see on all my cars. Why not look on your production car to see the size, etc.

_________________
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 20, 2017, 11:33 pm 
Offline
Always Moore!
User avatar

Joined: November 9, 2007, 3:40 pm
Posts: 3857
Location: Fort Worth, TX
If you're using 3AN hard line, why not use 3AN hose? You can get a 3AN bulkhead fitting, make the bracket however you want, and secure the fitting in the bracket using the nut.

Regarding the crush washer - both sides of the banjo.

_________________
-Andrew
Build Log
Youtube


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 20, 2017, 11:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 27, 2005, 1:04 am
Posts: 1174
Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
I'd use a crush washer on both sides of the banjo for sealing. The flex lines on my car are just standard rubber ones, but I have no idea what car they came from. I went through the napa catalog and found lines with the right banjo fitting on one end and a female end for a double flare on the other end, with the length I needed. You can probably find flex lines that would work with AN fittings too. I'd avoid more connections than needed, it's just more potential leaks.
Kristian

_________________
V6 in a book frame build. Now registered.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7587


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 12:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 8, 2010, 8:02 pm
Posts: 441
Location: White Rock, BC, Canada
As mentioned, you will find it easiest to grab a inverted-flare to -3AN bulkhead fitting and just make tabs. Buy -3AM lines with a banjo and you are done. Most OE tabs are steel and around 0.050".

Sealing washers on both sides of the banjo. Also most universal banjos will not lock into anything. If you look at OE designs there is something that orients the hose AND keeps it from being turned. When you turn the wheels there is potential for your banjo to loosen without it.

Cheers.

_________________
Build log: viewtopic.php?t=9291


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 10:36 am 
Offline

Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Posts: 799
Location: Vancouver, BC
Can you not source a hose with a "long" male thread at the chassis end? I just had some custom hoses made up for my Europa build (bloody spendy!), the outer end is a banjo and the inner is a 3/4-24 male thread that goes through a bracket on the chassis (a piece of 16 ga tubing) and is firmly attached to the chassis with a 3/8" half nut (bulkhead nut), the female brake pipe nut then threads onto the hose. The pic shown are obv rubber hoses but should show what I'm getting at.

Image

I typically try to avoid over use of adapters on cars as it's just another place for things to leak.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 10:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 19, 2012, 9:25 pm
Posts: 2544
Location: Summerville, SC
I bought -3 hoses from Speedway. Banjo one end, female -3 on the other and used a SS bulkhead brake fitting that attached to the bracket using a brake line spring clip.

Brackets were 16 gauge weld ons from Speedway. Attached to the chassis with a little more than 1/2 inch from frame rail to center of the hole.

I tried to add a pic, but get a server error.

_________________
Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 11:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3004
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
carguy123 wrote:
That's exactly what I see on all my cars. Why not look on your production car to see the size, etc.


The stuff I have ready access to is from my donor, but it reflects what I see in our newer car too. My Mustang donor has a LOT of one-off parts. I guess when you make 400K of these per year (or whatever number) suppliers give you what you want. Here is an example of the rear flex hose/ hard line junction. The mark-up in the photo was trying to get a question answered about the specialized plate/bracket that goes from the rear axle tube to the brake mounting flanges - more on that below.

'94 Mustang, 7.5" rear axle flex/hard line junction:
Attachment:
File comment: My donor setup
Axle-Flange-Braces-1.JPG
Axle-Flange-Braces-1.JPG [ 237.69 KiB | Viewed 285 times ]


See, I found out my Mustang has a "slutty" rear axle too. After much searching around, and asking questions, I found a Cobra replica guy who knew what those plates were for. They're anti-moan plates. You knew that, right?

I wanted to know if it was OK to leave them off as nobody (including the service manager/mechanic at my local Ford dealership) could tell me why they were there. They went right where my arms needed to attach for my 4-link suspension, so it was a genuine issue.

If you have a racing Cobra replica with this axle and leave them off, you find out very quickly, apparently. The rear brakes moan like hell under hard braking.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 11:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3004
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
a.moore wrote:
If you're using 3AN hard line, why not use 3AN hose? You can get a 3AN bulkhead fitting, make the bracket however you want, and secure the fitting in the bracket using the nut.

Regarding the crush washer - both sides of the banjo.


This is why I ask questions of all you smart guys. I looked at a number of vendors online until my eyes went dry, and I didn't see any ready-mades with AN fittings at the junction end. I assumed therefore, that they just weren't available. It sounds like I need to look some more, eh? Yes, using an -3 AN bulkhead fitting would be terrific and would simplify things greatly.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 11:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3004
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
turbo_bird wrote:
I'd use a crush washer on both sides of the banjo for sealing. The flex lines on my car are just standard rubber ones, but I have no idea what car they came from. I went through the napa catalog and found lines with the right banjo fitting on one end and a female end for a double flare on the other end, with the length I needed. You can probably find flex lines that would work with AN fittings too. I'd avoid more connections than needed, it's just more potential leaks.
Kristian


Thanks, Kristian. As I stated above, I didn't successfully locate any lines with AN fittings and assumed they weren't available. I hope that is wrong, and that I can find some.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 11:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3004
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
C10CoryM wrote:
As mentioned, you will find it easiest to grab a inverted-flare to -3AN bulkhead fitting and just make tabs. Buy -3AM lines with a banjo and you are done. Most OE tabs are steel and around 0.050".

Sealing washers on both sides of the banjo. Also most universal banjos will not lock into anything. If you look at OE designs there is something that orients the hose AND keeps it from being turned. When you turn the wheels there is potential for your banjo to loosen without it.

Cheers.


Thanks, Cory. It looks like trying to locate line with a AN junction on the inboard end is job #1 for me.

Thank you for the info on the banjo fitting. My donor has a rectangular block of metal for the banjos, and the shape of it locks it in place. From it is a large brazed, or welded-on, tube that goes upward towards the rear axle tube. That's because the hard line is atop the rear axle in the donor configuration. I'll be routing the flex line from below, off the lower chassis.

It looks like the "universal" replacement kits all have round banjo fittings. Probably so you can rotate them to lead off at any angle. I'll have to see if I can find out out how the "locking in place" is handled in those kits. Perhaps it's just hoping the friction of the banjo attachment is sufficient to hold it in place?

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 11:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3004
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
cs3tcr wrote:
Can you not source a hose with a "long" male thread at the chassis end? I just had some custom hoses made up for my Europa build (bloody spendy!), the outer end is a banjo and the inner is a 3/4-24 male thread that goes through a bracket on the chassis (a piece of 16 ga tubing) and is firmly attached to the chassis with a 3/8" half nut (bulkhead nut), the female brake pipe nut then threads onto the hose. The pic shown are obv rubber hoses but should show what I'm getting at.

Image

I typically try to avoid over use of adapters on cars as it's just another place for things to leak.


It sounds like there may be lines with AN fitting out there. That would solve things for me, if true. I'll see if I can find some.

Yes, I'd like to avoid a custom situation, if I can. It's great that you could find someone to do it, however. Was it a local shop, or did you have to find a vendor who would do custom hoses for you?

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 11:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3004
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
TooBusy wrote:
I bought -3 hoses from Speedway. Banjo one end, female -3 on the other and used a SS bulkhead brake fitting that attached to the bracket using a brake line spring clip.

Brackets were 16 gauge weld ons from Speedway. Attached to the chassis with a little more than 1/2 inch from frame rail to center of the hole.

I tried to add a pic, but get a server error.


Thanks so much. I'll search Speedway and see what I can find. It's good to know there's something out there. Now, to find one that fits my donor parts.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 11:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 12, 2012, 11:56 am
Posts: 569
Location: Pemberton, BC
Lonnie,
these are the ones that I used: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/DOT-Braid ... 36153.html
I'm a big fan of AN fittings, and I absolutely hated making the standard automotive double flares, however, I have heard that some inspectors will not pass the AN fittings. Also, it may be beneficial to show the inspector that the lines are DOT rated. I seem to recall that raceral had an issue with that. I originally went with a complete DOT approved brake system, but later changed to Wilwoods. The issue never came up during the inspection, but better safe than sorry.
I also removed the anti-moan plates. I can't hear a thing over my exhaust, so I haven't got a clue if the brakes moan. Personally, I just groan, trying to get into the car. :rofl:

_________________
Martin


My build log:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14520&start=0
My build video:
https://vimeo.com/143524140


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: April 21, 2017, 11:52 am 
Offline

Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Posts: 799
Location: Vancouver, BC
Lonnie,
The shop that made my hoses was local and were very quick in making them up. If you do look into get custom hoses made, contact a local hydraulics supplier/manufacturer, they should either be able to make them up or put you onto someone who can.

In my case, the rear hoses needed to be 23" long with a banjo at one end, so finding an off the shelf hose was slim to none.

Rod


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY