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PostPosted: September 23, 2017, 1:17 pm 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
As many here are doing, I'm using 3 Wilwood master cylinders, 2 of which (of course) are for the front and rear brakes, respectively, with a Wilwood adjustable balance bar joining them at the pedal.

Although the car's not on the road yet (hoping for spring 2018!!), I've noticed that the Wilwood balance bar is extremely rattly - I'm worried that when the car's moving, the balance bar (at least with no foot pressure on the pedal) is going to provide a cacophonous symphony of calamitous racket. Could be noisy, too!

At this point, there's no fluid in the system of course (brake lines aren't even complete yet), although the empty master cylinders are in place.

Initially, I was going to use one of Wilwood's cable-operated adusters, but later on I opted for one of their hydraulic front/rear adjusters, plumbed into the rear brake line near the master cylinder.

Am I concerned over nothing & it won't be a problem, or is there something I'm missing in the brief, included Wilwood instruction sheet that I've missed about tightening up slack in the balance bar itself? It seems like the spherical bearing inside is about 1/8" smaller than the tube it's in, so the pedals flop around at the balance bar, the balance bar itself rattles up & down, side to side, etc....as it stands, give the assembly a shake and it sounds like a coffee can full of loose change in a hardware store paint shaker.

Anyone else had or dealt with this issue before?

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PostPosted: September 23, 2017, 1:59 pm 
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Location: Sunny-Okanagan, Canada, eh?!
I have a Wilwood balance bar, and you're not going to hear that rattling at all. If it even rattles at all.

Skinny (back from the grave) G

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PostPosted: September 23, 2017, 2:15 pm 
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Are you talking about rattle between the bearing and the bore or between the clevises and the pedal?

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PostPosted: September 23, 2017, 3:13 pm 
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Yeah given all the other much more intense noise sources, this is a non-issue.

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PostPosted: September 23, 2017, 4:51 pm 
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The rattle sound would be your least concern; I'd be more concerned about the bearing being that much smaller. Obviously it has to be loose to slide, but 1/8 seems to be a lot of clearance. I've just adjusted mine, and the instructions call for about 20thou between the clevis and the pedal. That includes the washer; so the washer will be loose and could rattle, but I doubt that you'll hear it.

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PostPosted: September 23, 2017, 6:39 pm 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
Thanks, folks - mgkluft, you nailed one of the main noises - the washers rattle around, jingling like a gunslinger's spurs. As far as the 1/8" is concerned, that's a rough guesstimate of the total play at the balance bar (no measurement taken! :oops: )

"Course, it's true that it might not even be audible over the "brass band" sound the car is likely to make, so it's probably a non-issue.

SkinnyG - Hey, man, how you doing?? Haven't heard from you in a LOONG time!! Hope all is going well! Still Locosting?

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PostPosted: September 24, 2017, 12:51 am 
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The Lethal Locost is 119dB of wind noise. You won't hear anything. And if you don't wear ear plugs, you will hear even less.

I'm good, been lurking here for a few months. I've spent the last eight years shoe-horning a small block Chevy into an early Pontiac Firefly, which now has plates. Also the last two years building a workshop in the back yard. Lethal Locost #2 will continue year after next (gotta do some work and renos in and around the house first.

Get that car finished, man! It's a lot of fun driving them!

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PostPosted: September 24, 2017, 12:19 pm 
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I was concerned that the slop you noticed indicated a problem with your particular balance bar kit. I went out and checked my own this morning. There is virtually no play at all between the spherical bearing and the balance bar tube in my kit. The bearing slides nicely from side to side, but you can't feel any play if you try to move the bearing in the tube using the threaded rod. Here is a photo of mine:
Attachment:
File comment: My Wilwood Balance Bar Kit
DSC03923.JPG
DSC03923.JPG [ 125.09 KiB | Viewed 324 times ]


I had to take it apart to model it in 3D. The spherical bearing in my kit is very well secured on the rod by 2 nuts. one on each side. Is there any chance your bearing is loose on the threaded rod? I can see where that might make it feel sloppy.

Also, I notice mine is very different from the kit they featured on their website, at least the photo of it. It looks like this:
Attachment:
File comment: Wilwood example kit from website photo.
Wilwood-Balance-Bar-Sm.jpg
Wilwood-Balance-Bar-Sm.jpg [ 12.89 KiB | Viewed 324 times ]


Looking at the two of them, and mine in the flesh, it looks like the materials and machining on mine is quite different, and much improved, over their photo example. Which does your look like?

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

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PostPosted: September 24, 2017, 12:29 pm 
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I've bought several over the years and all have been like Lonnie's.

Any chance of sleeving the tube to make it tighter?

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PostPosted: September 24, 2017, 4:31 pm 
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Having a close fit is actually really important, ensuring that if the front or rear braking circuit fails, the balance bar will jam sideways between the two clevises and allow braking force to be applied to the remaining circuit. If there's too much clearance, the balance bar will pivot and you'll have zero braking.

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PostPosted: September 24, 2017, 4:53 pm 
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It is a fine line between being too loose and too tight. It needs to be some slop (laterally) so that the balance bar will function to distribute loads but tight enough so that i̶f̶ (I mean when) when one side fails, the other can still function, possibly in limited capacity.

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PostPosted: September 24, 2017, 8:23 pm 
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Mine doesn't look like Lonnie's - mine looks like theWilwood picture.

There's slop in it everywhere - the large clevis pins at each end are sloppy in the cross bars, the threaded balance bar rod is sloppy in the clevis pins, the bearing is sloppy in the tube (both radially & laterally), etc. The only acceptable bit of machining is where the pushrods thread into the end blocks.

It appears that Wilwood isn't concerned with precision in their brake parts anymore - honestly, there is so much play in all dimensions I'm considering tossing it in the trash & fabricating my own from scratch. I'm certainly concerned about trusting my life to it!

It's not like it was free to a good home, either :BH:

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PostPosted: October 6, 2017, 12:45 am 
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Hello to Skinny, Yea if you can hear that rattle your engines not running.


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