LocostUSA.com

I have purchased a complete Mustang II front end kit for my Replica Morgan project build.
As I'm using a split upper wishbone with a threaded insert, I need to find the correct Male tie rod end to fit the upper taper on the Helix brand dropped spindle. Would be grateful for any known types that fit.

FlierMike

Edited to show one of Spikes pics to indicate what I'm looking for.

I don't know of anyone that doesn't use the original bolt-on ford ubj, K8212.
Taper dims for oem ubj and lbj are not usually published unless for a racing product.

The chrysler screw-in k772 is supposed to have the same taper as the pinto/mustang 2 but I don't know if that is upper, lower, or both.

Measure the upper spindle boss id outside, inside, and the distance between. This can be used to determine the taper foot and compared to tierods that have those specs listed.

Or, you can just fit the bolt-on k8212.

Adapting typically occurs when the oem UBJ is not available separately from a uca or the oem had no ubj (strut)

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

The method you propose will not allow for camber adjustment. That is the reason for using a threaded ball joint.

Yes, but there are many different ways to have camber adjustment.
One way is to use eccentric bolts on slotted frame brkts like many oems do.
Another is to provide the dimensions requested to fit a tie rod.
Another is to use a mustang 2 tubular upper control arm with cross shaft and shimming to adjust (oem method).
Another is to use spherical bearings on the frame side for adjustment.
I could go on.

What do you want to do?

Sometimes the boss is reamed to fit a particular tie rod.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

[quote=]Sometimes the boss is reamed to fit a particular tie rod.[/quote]

Probably the simple answer other than going through many types of rod ends at the local store.

The dims of the boss are still needed to find a tie rod at least as large as the hole.
No need to go to a store.
Most tie rod dims are published but not ball joints that have no threaded shank.
Most tie rods are covered by a couple different tapers in commonly available reamers, but the reamers can be $$$.

You could slot the ubj mount flange on the uca for adjustment. This is how it is done by the oem on chevettes/fieros.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

You can search by measurements to find what you're looking for here:
https://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/universal_outer_tie_rod_ends.asp
If you can find a slightly oversize fitment, a taper reamer can be use to 'massage' the fit... But those come at a price.


Easier and more adjustable (caster and camber) would be to go with this style control arm:

I believe most are set up for K772, which is supposed to be a direct fit on the MII spindles.

_________________
-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

60 chevy pickup tierod SES150R, ES150R, etc is supposed to fit per Locost Johnh in 2007.

1.5 inch per foot taper
There are several similar sized pins that should work.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18144&p=216932

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

I reamed my pontiac solstice spindles to use the ES150 tie rod end from 50's/60's GM and Ford trucks (3/4 or 1 ton, iirc)

I used a 1-1/2"/foot reamer from XKUT. I made a fixture and reamed it in my milling machine. A drill press would prob work ok too. The fixture doesn't have to be fancy but should be rigid. Go slow and use lots of heavy cutting oil to get a good finish.

https://www.xkutusa.com/products/1-1-2- ... 1076123224

How about using an upper control arm with a screw-in or bolt-on ball joint and adjustable rod ends to adjust the camber:

https://swracecars.com/product/a-arm-pa ... -hardware/

https://www.ridetech.com/product/1967-1 ... rms-upper/

_________________
Photo gallery of my completed Locost:
https://plus.google.com/photos/10397358 ... banner=pwa

Thanks guys for all the comments and suggestions but the ES150R looks good and seems to be the answer. Will confirm tomorrow after a visit to NAPA for a trial fit. Interestingly I had already searched the Moog database comparing taper dimensions with the spindle dimensions. The ES 150R is not present in the Moog list that I checked.

All the other options are a non starter as I am following an existing suspension design and have already purchased the required DOM tubing for the wishbones along with the bushings and weld on tabs.

The minor factor is looks, some of the wishbone designs using a screw in ball joint are rather ugly to go on a car where the front suspension will be on full display.

Once again thanks to all who participated.

The problem with using a tie rod end for an upper ball joint is that it encroaches on the space needed to clear a coil over shock.

The screw in ball joint setup provides a maximum amount of shock/spring to upper arm clearance.

_________________
Honey anyone?

The current Moog online database only provides a partial listing of common tierods (only 464 tierods/draglinks). In the 90’s, (when home scanners and digital cameras were uncommon) I mailed McSorley copies of the ’97 master catalog specs that listed over 1100 tierod/draglinks so he could post them on yahoo groups. I’m sure there are a lot more tie rods now, over twenty years later.

Many are close enough to work interchangeably where the only significant difference is in the arm design, not the pin taper. Pins can be seated with valve grinding compound, lightly hand ream for required depth, or with a slightly thinner or longer thread pin, using the appropriate washer under the castle nut if needed for the slots to capture the cotter pin properly. Many mfgs have gone to nyloc one-time use prevailing torque fasteners.

I just realized moog's online specs leave out the taper length spec.
My catalog has most of them listed.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

More info on Tuesday the 13th, my local NAPA had to order ES150R from warehouse, not a common stock item. Summit also out of stock.

Rockauto has them. Right side outer, right hand thread 3/4-16, 3.50" long, ES150R, SES150R, GES150R, and other part numbers plus you can search for the oem number C0TZ3A130A:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/che ... d+end,7428

Also on ebay but at least $15 each without grease fittings.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12