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 Post subject: Re: Automatic or manual?
PostPosted: June 6, 2016, 9:30 am 
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Joined: July 17, 2008, 9:11 am
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Location: West Chicago,IL
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How would you program the clutch actuation to be correct under different conditions? The simple becomes very complex.

Bill
Maybe based on RPM at the time of shift or based on time the clutch button is held? It would probably cover 80% of the situations on upshift. Not sure what could be used for speed of downshifting.

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 Post subject: Re: Automatic or manual?
PostPosted: June 6, 2016, 1:40 pm 
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Joined: August 27, 2005, 1:04 am
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Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
We had a tractor with an electronically controlled clutch at a farm I used to work at. There were dealershio techs out constantly to try to make the clutch work decently. As far as I'm concerned, they didn't get it right as long as I was there. There was a button on the shifter that could be pushed to disengage the clutch, a forward/reverse shuttle near the steering wheel that would also disengage the clutch, as well as a fly by wire clutch pedal that would manually override either of the others. All three methods were pretty much straight up terrible. There was no feel in the pedal, and no matter how the dealer techs had them system programmed, the buttons were either way too harsh, or slipped for what seemed like forever before fully engaging. I wouldn't imagine that a homebrew solution would be much better, and possibly a lot worse.

I think a better setup might be like an automatic clutch on a quad, where there is a centrifugal clutch that is used for taking off from a stop, and an electrically operated override that disengages the clutch when the shift lever is moved. A friend if mine had a old VW beetle with a similar setup that was pretty decent to drive. It shifted like a regular manual transmission but had no clutch pedal. I'm not sure if it had a torque convertor or a centrifugal clutch though.
Kristian

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 Post subject: Re: Automatic or manual?
PostPosted: June 18, 2016, 9:12 am 
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Location: central Arkansas
That was the VW "Automatic Stick Shift." My Dad had one when I was a teenager. It had a fluid coupling (not a torque convertor!) and a disc clutch. The clutch had a big vacuum servo with an electric valve. The clutch wasn't modulated; it was in or out. The switch was built into the shift knob; if you put your hand on the knob the clutch disengaged.

To drive it, you started the engine, pulled it back into first (it was a three speed!) and pushed down on the gas. To change gears, you just moved the shifter. You could come to a halt or take off in any gear.

The fluid coupling had no torque multiplication, so the VW was even more gutless than normal. Acceleration was... leisurely. Engine RPM was only loosely related to forward motion. And if you stopped on a hill and left it in third, you could floor it and the engine would rev mightily while the car rolled gently backwards...

The system was typical of the pathetic European ideas for clutchless transmissions, all of which the US motor indistry dropped like a hot rock after Packard invented the modern torque convertor automatic.


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 Post subject: Re: Automatic or manual?
PostPosted: June 19, 2016, 6:22 am 
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Joined: February 28, 2009, 11:09 pm
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Location: Connersville, Indiana
How about the AMC E-Stick? When it came out it seemed to work okay, but it was on the market for a very short time. Also Ford's automated manual. A friend has one on his Focus, much to his dismay. The worst of both worlds. Sort of like the computerized carburetor.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Automatic or manual?
PostPosted: June 19, 2016, 11:17 pm 
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Joined: August 27, 2005, 1:04 am
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Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
TRX wrote:
That was the VW "Automatic Stick Shift." My Dad had one when I was a teenager. It had a fluid coupling (not a torque convertor!) and a disc clutch. The clutch had a big vacuum servo with an electric valve. The clutch wasn't modulated; it was in or out. The switch was built into the shift knob; if you put your hand on the knob the clutch disengaged.

To drive it, you started the engine, pulled it back into first (it was a three speed!) and pushed down on the gas. To change gears, you just moved the shifter. You could come to a halt or take off in any gear.

The fluid coupling had no torque multiplication, so the VW was even more gutless than normal. Acceleration was... leisurely. Engine RPM was only loosely related to forward motion. And if you stopped on a hill and left it in third, you could floor it and the engine would rev mightily while the car rolled gently backwards...

The system was typical of the pathetic European ideas for clutchless transmissions, all of which the US motor indistry dropped like a hot rock after Packard invented the modern torque convertor automatic.

Leisurely acceleration is definitely accurate. My buddy had a straight pipe on his and I could hear him pull onto the highway from his house about a mile from mine. He would be wide open until he had to slow down for my driveway, and I doubt he was speeding. He made a pass at a drag strip just for giggles once and I think it did something like 60 mph in the 1/4, somewhere around 30 seconds.
Kristian

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