Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Whether it's a "book" chassis or another variant, FEA talk or roll cage advice that you're looking for, this is the place to talk frame construction.

Moderators: a.moore, horizenjob

Post Reply
User avatar
Blackbird
Weight watcher
Posts: 2401
Joined: March 7, 2006, 6:15 pm
Building: R1 powered Locost
Location: Northridge, CA
Contact:

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by Blackbird »

KB58 wrote:
Blackbird wrote:...I've actually requested to be removed from the administration of the forum not too long ago, so feel free to fire away at will...

"I'm going now! Here I go! Don't try to stop me! You'll see, I'll really do it! I mean it, you'll be sorry!"

No need for the contrived drama, if you don't want to be here any longer, just go.

No drama, I'm waiting for Dave to login and straighten it up, he's just not around a whole lot...
I didn't say that I'm leaving the site, but thanks for the warm request :roll:

Moti
User avatar
horizenjob
The voice of reason
Posts: 7652
Joined: January 10, 2008, 4:47 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by horizenjob »

Perspectives being what they are, I'm afraid Moti's seven is on the porky side... I wish we had a good ROTFLMAO emoticon. No disrespect intended at all actually. I think I've seen pictures of UK locosts that came in under 900 lbs. That would take some real effort.

I used to practice wheel to fender with stock cars and Corvettes etc. sitting on an aluminium fuel tank. These days they hardly let amateurs on the big oval at the local track...

We have prints for original sevens and posts that would give answers to the size increase of an SV or Locost, you just need to dig around. The original seven was small, I think 36 inches across the cockpit.

Try searching for "Prince blueprints" or some such and you should et some ideas and maybe pointers to better copies. Keep reading and ask some more questions. I think you can build these to the size you want.

I think the Seven and Caterham frames are more elegant then the Locost, but when all is said and done it may or may not matter much. It's a personal decision how much you value that as opposed to a car you can enjoy and drive around. It's up to you.
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.
User avatar
carguy123
Toyotaphobe
Posts: 4829
Joined: April 5, 2008, 2:25 am
Building: Choppercrosser
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by carguy123 »

KB58 wrote:
Blackbird wrote:...I've actually requested to be removed from the administration of the forum not too long ago, so feel free to fire away at will...

"I'm going now! Here I go! Don't try to stop me! You'll see, I'll really do it! I mean it, you'll be sorry!"

No need for the contrived drama, if you don't want to be here any longer, just go.



He says, from one drama queen to another.
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.
OzGecko
Posts: 319
Joined: February 1, 2006, 3:02 am
Building: Midi

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by OzGecko »

Without wanting to fan any flames :roll: I will also state that I think a V8 engined Locost is not really a Locost - it's more of a Hot Rod with simpler bodywork and a tube frame instead of twin rails. To me (and I'm confident the vast majority of builders here in Australia and probably the UK would concur) anything over about 750kg (1650lb) is getting pretty darn lardy for a Locost. You can't put a heavy V8 in a Locost and keep its essential character anymore than you could put a 2 litre twin cam four into a Corvette and keep its character! Locosts are meant to be small, light, and nimble - not lead tipped arrows :shock:

Anyway, returning to the original poster, I'll rephrase my question a bit:

What aspects of a Caterham are you hoping to emulate?
- If it's just the appearance then just modify the "book locost" dimensions to suit.
- If it's the handling then copying dimensions alone won't get you there. You'd need the same suspension components, wheels, tyres, spring rates, and damper settings as well as having something close to the same weight and weight distribution. Once you start changing major components you're off on your own for tuning the handling.

I think you need to properly quantify your needs and wants (e.g. are you intending to use the car for road only or track events?) before anyone can give useful answers.

Dominic
User avatar
Blackbird
Weight watcher
Posts: 2401
Joined: March 7, 2006, 6:15 pm
Building: R1 powered Locost
Location: Northridge, CA
Contact:

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by Blackbird »

carguy123 wrote:
KB58 wrote:"I'm going now! Here I go! Don't try to stop me! You'll see, I'll really do it! I mean it, you'll be sorry!"

No need for the contrived drama, if you don't want to be here any longer, just go.



He says, from one drama queen to another.

After pulling the "I'm going!" stunt himself not too long ago -
KB58 wrote around the end of 2009 wrote:I'm out of here.

Yet somehow he got back after a couple months or so of not posting anything...

Some people's memories aren't that short... :roll:

Moti
skou
Posts: 462
Joined: April 16, 2010, 12:19 pm
Building: Miata Scratch Build
Location: Meridian, Idaho

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by skou »

Can we get back to talking cars?
Steve
goin2slow
Posts: 15
Joined: November 15, 2010, 10:53 am
Building: +4 chassis-v6 power
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by goin2slow »

RacerDan wrote:Moti

I originally banged out 4-5 paragraphs taking you to task for what I feel is a slight to the majorty of the subscribers on this site. I deleted all of it because I didn't feel I needed to justify my build.

I just want you to know that I take it as a bit of an insult to be slammed because my vision doesn't match yours.
Right on Dan. What's up with these guys that want to tell everybody else what "right" is ????
Ray +402 chassis, 2.8 v6
killerkane
Posts: 9
Joined: February 20, 2011, 3:19 pm

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by killerkane »

OzGecko wrote:Without wanting to fan any flames :roll: I will also state that I think a V8 engined Locost is not really a Locost - it's more of a Hot Rod with simpler bodywork and a tube frame instead of twin rails. To me (and I'm confident the vast majority of builders here in Australia and probably the UK would concur) anything over about 750kg (1650lb) is getting pretty darn lardy for a Locost. You can't put a heavy V8 in a Locost and keep its essential character anymore than you could put a 2 litre twin cam four into a Corvette and keep its character! Locosts are meant to be small, light, and nimble - not lead tipped arrows :shock:

Anyway, returning to the original poster, I'll rephrase my question a bit:

What aspects of a Caterham are you hoping to emulate?
- If it's just the appearance then just modify the "book locost" dimensions to suit.
- If it's the handling then copying dimensions alone won't get you there. You'd need the same suspension components, wheels, tyres, spring rates, and damper settings as well as having something close to the same weight and weight distribution. Once you start changing major components you're off on your own for tuning the handling.

I think you need to properly quantify your needs and wants (e.g. are you intending to use the car for road only or track events?) before anyone can give useful answers.

Dominic


Good question, I like the appearance of the Caterham (S3 chassis) more than the locost because of the smaller size etc. I don't care about making the handling EXACTLY like a Caterham though, I think that through IRS and good tuning my suspension setup would surpass that of a Caterham. I am more worried now about the dimensions of the car, later (I think) I can make the car outhandle a Caterham.

Please tell me if I am way off the mark! You know way more than I do.

Thanks
Joshua
User avatar
Blackbird
Weight watcher
Posts: 2401
Joined: March 7, 2006, 6:15 pm
Building: R1 powered Locost
Location: Northridge, CA
Contact:

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by Blackbird »

I don't think you're way off the mark.
What will help you is to define the main use of the car.
Different environments call for different compromises, and it goes more than skin deep.

Let me give you an example for such compromise on a very basic item as your driver seat -

* If you built your car for street use you're likely to want some ride quality, so a seat with a reasonable amount of support and good cushion is the way to go.

* If you built your car for autoxing you're going to want the lightest weight possible so something like a go kart seat is a reasonable - it's supportive though not really comfortable but you're only going to drive it in anger some seconds at a time so who gives a damn..

* If you built your car for race track use you'll want to place safety high on your priorities.
Tracks have walls, elevation changes, other cars and plenty of other hazards that you'll deal with.
You'll need maximum support and maximum safety but also to be comfortable for a length of time of 20 minutes of hard hitting G-forces.
This calls for a good racing seat, and the more hard core you go (read spend more) the better you are.

This is just one example, there many more.
The thought process is an important part of the project, don't skimp on it just because you want to start building something..

Moti
cs3tcr
Posts: 1045
Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by cs3tcr »

As Greg mentioned, i built one using all the "correct" parts other than the motor and gearbox. I can tell you one thing, trying to make one exact costs more than just making one that looks the same. As its been mentioned, go to http://www.diyse7ens.com and download the prince blueprints. They're a good starting point, as they will provide you with enough dimensions to make a car that looks like the real deal. As was discussed in another thread, there are some measurements that are questionable, but at least they're available on the open market.

Good luck with your build and send along any questions you might have.

Cheers,
Rod
User avatar
mattrogers
Posts: 505
Joined: November 13, 2009, 8:43 pm
Building: Miata-based +442
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by mattrogers »

Just a bit of perspective: We're all building cars. Most of us from scratch. We're all working on the same basic challenges:
  1. Mount a powertrain
  2. Get some sort of suspension to hold the car up
  3. Find a place to sit
  4. Plumb fuel, exhaust and coolant, route electricity
  5. Make the car look nice.

Some of us are shooting for a super-lightweight car, some of us are shooting for crazy amounts of horsepower. Some of us even have the engines behind the seats!! But please remember that we're all building cars, mostly from scratch. And regardless of how much horsepower we have, or how light the car is, once we have built the car, we've accomplished something that very few have.

Personally, I've struggled with the whole lightweight thing. I figure that I'll build my +442 without much regard to weight, see how I like it, and if I'm so inclined, build another one that's better, faster, stronger, lighter, or more whatever-er than my first car. After all, even Caterham builds continuations of the Series 3, not the 1 or 2. We have several different engines in use here, and several different chassis sizes and layouts. But, honestly, I've learned stuff from the +442 Miata builders as well as stuff from mid-engined BEC builders.

So go on, build yourself a car, from scratch. That's a journey upon which few have embarked, and even fewer have finished. You'll be in pretty rare air.

To the OP: Yeah, check out your neighbor's Caterham, make sure you fit in it, and then adjust to suit your size and desired engine platform. I would recommend checking our Rust_bucket's build. His is 2" wider, and a whole lot shorter than the book dimensions--with a Miata engine. Square tubing is fine.
KB58
Mid-Engined Maniac
Posts: 6520
Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Building: Midlana
Location: SoCal
Contact:

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by KB58 »

Blackbird wrote:... :roll:

Still here? I understand you are or were a mod... can't you remove yourself?
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/
schwac2
Posts: 63
Joined: February 27, 2009, 12:05 pm
Building: electric middie

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by schwac2 »

Kurt and Moti - i respect the hell out of both of you guys, but please stop and let the OP's discussion continue. If you guys want to keep battling this out, do it over PM.
Off Road SHO
Posts: 1047
Joined: July 6, 2008, 11:15 am
Building: Yamaha V-6 powered s
Location: Cave Creek, AZ

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by Off Road SHO »

schwac2 wrote:Kurt and Moti - i respect the hell out of both of you guys, but please stop and let the OP's discussion continue. If you guys want to keep battling this out, do it over PM.



Ditto, especially the respect part because of your knowledge, but you guys need to know when to take it outside. please.

Tom
Sometimes, I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.

My short term memory is absolutely horrible and so is my short term memory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG16m2e4O6I
KB58
Mid-Engined Maniac
Posts: 6520
Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Building: Midlana
Location: SoCal
Contact:

Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost

Post by KB58 »

Sorry about that other stuff. Occasionally some flamefest will happen that I'm later ashamed of, or suspect which raised my blood pressure. A good test of whether something should be posted is if I hover over the Enter key at all, or dread going back later to see what was said... all signs that I shouldn't have posted anything at all.

Anyway... back to the OP's post.

The most important thing to do is to sit in a Caterham, because some are very tight. Since you know someone with one I assume that you have and find the fit acceptable - this is very important. The only other issue is the chassis integrity. Some Lotus Seven chassiss would literally break, or at least crack. Presumably Caterham has solved that, though it might bear looking into.
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests