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PostPosted: February 22, 2016, 3:02 pm 
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Hey, some secretary (do they even have secretaries now?) will no doubt wreck hers, and the drive trains would be cheap to come by, with the rest valuable as parts?

"The Mustang EcoBoost is powered by a 2.3 liter 4-cylinder turbo EcoBoost engine making 310 horsepower and 320 lb-ft of torque." And comes with both an auto and a 6-speed, so chances are you won't have to pay for a custom bell housing?

Here is a swap using the EcoBoost, although I think that the author / builder has since lost the plot on finishing it? http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture ... e-part-xi/

"The 2016 Camaro (only available on the LT models) will rock a 2.0 liter 4-cylinder turbocharged engine making 275 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque. The engine will be mated to either a 6-speed manual or an 8-speed automatic..."

I think that the GM bit is already a crate engine? http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/cr ... inder.html




http://autonationdrive.com/face-off-fri ... -cylinder/

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PostPosted: February 22, 2016, 8:08 pm 
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Edit...obviously it's not a 96 Camaro donor, but rather their new 16 turbo 4-banger... jeez I must've been distracted.

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PostPosted: February 23, 2016, 12:04 am 
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Well your 16 in the title bumfuzzled me. I thought you'd made a misteak and meant a 66 or 76 Mustang.

Is it 2016 already? I feel like I'm in a Back To The Future movie.

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PostPosted: February 23, 2016, 1:00 am 
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geek49203 wrote:
Edit...obviously it's not a 96 Camaro donor, but rather their new 16 turbo 4-banger... jeez I must've been distracted.
Fixed it.
carguy123 wrote:
Is it 2016 already? I feel like I'm in a Back To The Future movie.
I took a flight on United late last year, and their baggage rules read (in part), "In the interest of safety for our customers and employees, we do not accept hoverboards as checked or carry-on baggage." Man, that would have been a fun ticket to send back in time 25 years.

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PostPosted: February 23, 2016, 1:12 am 
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As one of the better-known car journalists remarked to me, we now live in a golden era of horsepower. Where the meager 4 cylinder base motor of 2016 puts out more oomph than the IROC motors did back when I was in college.

Dang, it's great to live in 2016.

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PostPosted: February 26, 2016, 4:12 pm 
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honest, I'm not goofing off at work, I'm waiting for trouble tickets to come my way... and no trouble today.

I see where at least one legacy Brunton Stalker has the Sky/Solstice EcoTech 2.0 drivetrain in it.

The Camaro 2.0 turbo (LTG) is the next generation of that motor, but I do believe it will still bolt up to the Aisin AR that the Sky/Solstice ran.

The reason I am quickly liking this idea is that it's cost-effective and supported. Here are the LTG crate engine parts from GM:

item list retail
Engine 19328837 9000 7600
Trans 19328976 3875 3488
Clutch 24251131 234 214
Controller 19328839 2400 2160
Drive Systm 19329020 512 461

But the 2.0 Turbo appears to be going for $1500 and up, the Sky/Solstice manual trans going for $600 and up. I imagine that a wiring harness / ecu is gonna be another $500 (depending) so for $2600 you have a motor that is one tune away from 300 hp.

Or, if you can find a FWD car with this motor (Malibu and Regal come to mind) as a donor, and use the Sky/Solstice trans, you could do even better than that in terms of price?

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PostPosted: February 26, 2016, 6:38 pm 
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That keeps getting on my radar as well. A guy who works at Pep Boys and drives a Solstice with that engine says they are even cheaper than that. He swears I can find an engine & transmission of $1,000 ish.

And once you blow it that the only specific parts are the heads/cams and turbos so you can use cheap block replacements out of a million other GM cars.

It seems that 300 hp is super simple, possibly on the stock ecu if I'm understanding him right, but so many people are shooting for the 400 hp mark that the stock turbos are a dime a dozen once people take them off.

Downside seems to the GM transmission. Wrong ratios for downshifting, too wide of ratios and not nearly as smooth shifting as say the Miata or S2000 transmission.

To me the transmission is the car. It's what you have contact with the most and what gives you grief if the ratios or effort is wrong.

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PostPosted: February 27, 2016, 11:20 am 
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Gen 5 Camaro IRS rear cradles, complete, are going for under US$1000


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PostPosted: February 27, 2016, 8:22 pm 
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Buy the wiring book.
Learn the wiring book.
Live the wiring book.

The computers are threaded all through a 2016 vehicle.


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PostPosted: February 28, 2016, 2:33 pm 
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TRX wrote:
Buy the wiring book.
Learn the wiring book.
Live the wiring book.

The computers are threaded all through a 2016 vehicle.


Circa 1995, which was bad enough?

Attachment:
wiring2_2013-04-20_13-14-41_709.jpg
wiring2_2013-04-20_13-14-41_709.jpg [ 109.33 KiB | Viewed 615 times ]

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PostPosted: March 13, 2016, 5:09 pm 
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carguy123 wrote:

Downside seems to the GM transmission. Wrong ratios for downshifting, too wide of ratios and not nearly as smooth shifting as say the Miata or S2000 transmission.

To me the transmission is the car. It's what you have contact with the most and what gives you grief if the ratios or effort is wrong.


Glad someone besides me noted that.

Maybe there is some cross part swaps, considering how many vehicles shared that trans family? Would be funny, if not all that surprising if Toyota pickups came with a better ratio set and shifter than GM's sports car. More seriously, doesn't the BRZ RA62 transmission share 99% of its lineage with the AW whatever of the Solstice?


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PostPosted: March 13, 2016, 6:03 pm 
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It's all the computers & sensors that put me off. Short of DIY (with Megajolt etc.), when I decided to use a Zetec motor, I abandoned the idea of trying to run the OEM FI, and went to carbs (beautiful, glorious, Weber 45DOCE's!!!). There were so many sensors to fool on the OEM ECU, it wouldn't have been feasible to use it. I could certainly fool some of them, but never all of them at the same time, and I'd have constantly been in "limp-home mode".

I ended up with a John Ehrlich-designed, GM OBD-1-based ignition (basically, in permanent "run-home" mode, but with a 2-D performance ignition map) that uses a single, crank-position sensor, a "+" wire, and a "-" wire. That's it.

My donor motor's from back in 2004, and I can't imagine that computer systems have gotten less invasive, so I suspect some serious computer bodging would be required.

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PostPosted: July 9, 2016, 8:36 pm 
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What's the purpose for using a 2016 turbo 4?
Surely not low cost, you can do a Mitsu 4G63T for under $1000, plus another $500 for the electronics.
If you insist on a non-carbureted engine, the electronics aspect alone is the best reason to jump on the LSx bandwagon, except that the custom tune on a chassis dyno is still going to run you $400.
So, if you're gonna spend $500 on electronics, go MegaSquirt and then turbo whatever engine you like. Because any reman carb is gonna run at least $300 anyway.
So the debate then reverts to which engine and why. Transmission is an excellent focus, whether manual or automatic.
Affordable manuals with good ratios that can hold good power don't even exist, used T56s run close to $1500, so run less power and run a T5, or find an automatic you like and build around that.
Actually, if you were going to invest in one big-ticket item in the entire car, a TKO600 would be a wise move. Then the engines that bolt right up with no fabrication include any and all of the Chevy V8s, and Ford's Windsors. The 302w is small, cheap, available, and good to 600 hp, but none of the stock heads are any good, so a Vortec 350 is the cheapest way to 350-450 hp n.a., all the power that a 1500 pound home built car can take anyway.


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PostPosted: July 9, 2016, 11:00 pm 
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I think if you get these motors on a scale ( and their transmissions ) you're going to find they are quite heavy. Much worse though they are very bulky, tall and so very complicated. I think what do is make better mileage possible by being able to run at slow speeds and lower power without the issues of a large displacement engine at high intake manifold vacuum.

These engines have 4 cylinders, but they are nothing like the old 4's in these cars from years ago in terms of size or weight. If anyone wants to get out a tape measure, I think my Ford 302 is smaller than these engines and not much different in weight - maybe lighter with the T5....

Quote:
To me the transmission is the car. It's what you have contact with the most and what gives you grief if the ratios or effort is wrong.


There is a lot of truth in what Carguy is saying here. The thing I remember most about driving my formula ford is how much fun it was to shift and how when you were getting it right you really felt you were with the program so to speak. Why is it so hard to get these parts for car transmissions? :BH: Every motorcycle has a dog clutch transmission.

On my FF after the first year I never used the clutch, just the quickest lift possible - you apply pressure to the shifter, the lift happens and it just jumps to the next gear. You can feel the weight come off one tooth and feel the next tooth grab hold. They sell some of these parts for T5's but I think they are set up for drag racing and might not stay in gear in normal use...

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PostPosted: July 10, 2016, 1:49 pm 
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horizenjob wrote:
...and not much different in weight - maybe lighter with the T5....

Quote:
To me the transmission is the car. It's what you have contact with the most and what gives you grief if the ratios or effort is wrong.


There is a lot of truth in what Carguy is saying here.


Probably a whole nuther great thread. I've read build logs for people who tell me that the first couple of gears on their build are totally useless, which makes me wonder why they didn't change the rear end ratio or the trans ratios?

And then there is cost of getting the trans mated. If you have to spend $500 on a custom bell, and perhaps a similar amount on the clutch pack, that doesn't sound like a great alternative. Which is my complaint with much of the Ford stuff -- I think that Ford has / had a goal for a different bell bolt pattern for every model made? Certainly that was my first observation when Ford came out with their 3- and 4-cylinder crate motors, expecting us locost guys to buy 'em up.

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Last edited by geek49203 on July 10, 2016, 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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