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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: June 26, 2018, 10:46 pm 
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Toyotaphobe
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
How in the heck do you tell the offset of a set of rims?

I have this set I want to sell because the offset is not right for my car, but all I've been able to do is measure the back spacing from the mounting point to the edge of the rim. I have a guy interested, but I can't figure out the offset.

And also why do "universal fit" rims not fit my S2000? They fit the Miata both 4 and 5 lug and the 280Z

Here are the pictures of the rims, tires and rears of the rims.

Sorry, I forgot they display in reverse order.


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295 18.jpg
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front view.jpg
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other 17.jpg
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rear 17.jpg
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18 rear.jpg
18 rear.jpg [ 72.98 KiB | Viewed 2966 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: June 26, 2018, 11:44 pm 
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Here's a method (with illustrations!)

Offset ==> https://www.4wheelparts.com/tire-wheel- ... acing.aspx

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: June 26, 2018, 11:48 pm 
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Thank you much!

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: June 30, 2018, 4:01 pm 
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It was bushing day, or it was supposed to be bushing day.

It started out with a little bit of business that needed to be done. We had a 10:00 a.m. appointment and the gal never showed so that meant I had to wait around till almost 11:00 to begin.

The kit came with Delrin bushings, but my experience with Delrin has been good performance wise, but harsh I would love to build at little compliance into this so that if Texas finally relents and allows homebuilts and kit cars to be registered again then I can put it on the street.

The guy at Summit and I looked and looked for poly bushings that might fit, but the only ones we found were sway bar bushings that would need to be shortened a little. I was concerned they might be just as rough as the delrin until I accidentally dropped both today. The Delrin just kinda sat that while the poly bounced around everywhere. After several repeated very scientific experiments with different drop heights it make be think the poly will definitely be noticeably more compliant.

What I've done with poly before is a 2 piece bushing and add a grease fitting in the space between. That has kept it squeak free and very free moving so that's what I intend to do here. B U T . . .just to be sure I'm not going to drill any of the suspension ends until the last moment because once I do that I'm outta options.

To shorten it I used the chop saw with an abrasive blade, because that's what was on the saw. I tried a razor knife, but that was dangerous and since I've seen what can happen by watching all of your builds I choose the (slightly) safer alternative. The chop saw worked well.

Then I finished it off on the Harbor Freight disc and belt sander that I'd bought 11 months ago and never unpacked. So unpacking and setting that bad boy up took up another portion of the day. It worked great to finish off the cut ends and to think the "flange" end of the bushing a little so it would fit. Yes, I had to work on both ends of the bushing to make it work which is what was giving me pause for thought. Delrin is naturally slippery so I also wouldn't need a grease fitting.

So here are some pics. This first is the poly installed. If you look you can see my mark that shows me where I can install the grease fitting. I have to use a 45 degree fitting and I can't be more than 1/2" back from the weld or it will interfere with the br@ck!t in bump.

Attachment:
poly installed.jpg
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This one shows the gap between the 2 ends and the space I have for the grease fitting.

Attachment:
poly exposed.jpg
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This shows the Delrin bushing. As you can see I have to use washers to finish it off whereas the poly has those soft cushy pillows on the end. OK, they aren't all that cushy, but they'll be a lot quieter.

Attachment:
delrin.jpg
delrin.jpg [ 65.16 KiB | Viewed 2851 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: June 30, 2018, 4:06 pm 
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While I only got one set of bushings finished I have the procedure down pat. I had to stop because of familial duties this evening which is short for I'm going to hear a band out on the patio and dance and drink and eat and, and . . .

I noticed what might be another issue for the first time today.

The car uses 4 bolt Miata uprights and has a heim on the top and a ball joint at the bottom. I just realized that the top hole is still tapered and when loose the whole thing can move. When I tighten it down will that hold it? it doesn't seem like it would to me.

Here are some pics. I tried to hold the camera still and take a shot of me pushing right and then left. If you look at the background you can see how much movement is possible. Suggestions?


Attachments:
pushed right.jpg
pushed right.jpg [ 74.63 KiB | Viewed 2852 times ]
pushed left.jpg
pushed left.jpg [ 76.38 KiB | Viewed 2852 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: June 30, 2018, 11:43 pm 
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This is apropos of nothing car related but tonight while listening to the band I went up and requested a song.

The lead singer was getting a little hoarse so he asked if I would sing it. I have sung with them several times in a segment they do where people get up out of the audience and do a short section of one song so he kinda knew me.

I said sure and then quickly listened to the song on my phone to make sure I remembered it. Twasn't enough.

Just as I got up on stage he announced it would be acapella. I'd never sung the song acapella. They talk about cotton mouth, but I never really understood what it was. Instantly every last ounce of fluid left my mouth.

Not only had we not practiced it, I didn't know what key it was in and I didn't have music to fall back on, I hadn't heard the song in almost a year so the one quick listen while in the noise of a crowd didn't suffice.

I truly hate to mess up in anything, but I did with this.

I'll be singing tomorrow night so this song will be on the set list so I can reassure myself I can sing this song.

What's the song? "In the Still of the Night" and this was a Do Wap group.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: July 1, 2018, 1:46 am 
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carguy123 wrote:
I'll be singing tomorrow night


You have to get video of this or I will be very disappointed.
I get very grumpy when I'm disappointed. :cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: July 1, 2018, 8:22 am 
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Quote:
I just realized that the top hole is still tapered and when loose the whole thing can move. When I tighten it down will that hold it? it doesn't seem like it would to me.
Wellll.... You could drill out the taper and use a bigger bolt, which would require a bigger heim, which would require re-doing the control arm. Careful or you'll wind up building a Studebaker instead of a Stalker...

Could you get a heim with a threaded stud the same size as what you got now, but with a bigger hole in the ball end? Maybe...

Drill out the taper oversized a good bit (how much?) and insert a steel liner (piece of tubing?) with an ID that matches your bolt. Washers top and bottom to retain the liner piece. Maybe...

Perhaps one of the smart kids will chime in soon if I stir up enough dust.

Yeah, post video of the singing gig. We don't want Perry to be Grumpy. Or Doc. Or Dopey.

:cheers:
JD "Sneezy" Kemp

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: July 1, 2018, 10:13 am 
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carguy123 wrote:
I just realized that the top hole is still tapered and when loose the whole thing can move. When I tighten it down will that hold it? it doesn't seem like it would to me.



You didn't hear this from me. And I was never here. In a former life, when British cars were virtually gone from the USA, I had a suspension casting worn oval from neglected greasing of a trunion joint. I was low on money and even if I wasn't, parts were not available as dealers were closing left and right. I took some metal-filled epoxy (industrial version from work) and rebuilt the casting to like-new condition before installing new parts. I can't see how doing a similar thing using JB Weld to fill in the taper could hurt. It might even help, if help is even needed.


BTW, compliant bushings are over rated IMO. I used Heims and can say, that I never felt that the ride was anything close to harsh. YMMV

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: July 1, 2018, 1:49 pm 
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carguy123 wrote:
The car uses 4 bolt Miata uprights and has a heim on the top and a ball joint at the bottom. I just realized that the top hole is still tapered and when loose the whole thing can move. When I tighten it down will that hold it? it doesn't seem like it would to me.
I had a similar situation and Art Morrison (Yeah, that Art Morrison) suggested using tapered sleeves (tapered on the OD but straight on the ID) to line the holes. He dug a pair out of an old parts bin and they worked perfectly. Similar pieces could easily be made on a lathe, starting with the correct ID tubing and turning the taper needed on the outside, then cut to length. Carefully tap the tapered sleeve into the tapered hole and dress it off flush on top. A straight shank bolt should fit nicely and be much safer than the loose fit you described.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: July 1, 2018, 2:41 pm 
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I like the drill it out and use a sleeve method as I don't have a lathe and I could probably spend a huge amount of time looking for the correct reverse taper sleeve.

Of course a piece of tubing that size isn't available from Lowes or HD. On the other hand the smaller piece I need to fix the mess someone made on my suspension rockers IS and I've already bought a piece. JD, your mythical friend who keeps messin' up your stuff has moved to Texas - you ought to be safe now.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: July 2, 2018, 7:53 am 
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Just weld the larger end of the taper hole, then re-drill. Use one size smaller drill bit as a pilot from the smaller Dia. Then drill it out using the final size drill so you get a good finish. If you have a reamer that would be even better. But be careful with the reamer, the weld is a lot harder then the parent metal, a good way to break the reamer, do ask how I know. DaveW


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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: July 2, 2018, 5:14 pm 
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Actually I just bought some more tubing of the proper diameter and I'm going to cut a piece slightly longer than before, weld a big washer on one end and then use a loose washer on the other end. I think that will be less work.

Oh wait, you were talking about the upright and I had shock rockers on the brain. But I still think that if it's available, that drilling and using a bushing might be simpler than welding and then redrilling, wouldn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: July 7, 2018, 5:50 am 
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I've run in to this in the past, although not on a spindle. There are areas to do the locost thing, and areas to spend a few bucks if you do not have the equipment or expertise. For my peace of mind, I'd sleeve it. Take the spindles and the tubing to a machinist, have the holes drilled for a light press fit, and press the sleeves in.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: July 7, 2018, 7:58 am 
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Dismantalus wrote:
I've run in to this in the past, although not on a spindle. There are areas to do the locost thing, and areas to spend a few bucks if you do not have the equipment or expertise. For my peace of mind, I'd sleeve it. Take the spindles and the tubing to a machinist, have the holes drilled for a light press fit, and press the sleeves in.
Yeah, what he said... :mrgreen:
That same machine shop could machine some tubing that was "close" to the right size and put it in a lathe or a mill or some such thing and make it just right for your application before they pressed it in for ya.

I kinda like that idea...
:cheers:

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"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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