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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: October 20, 2020, 1:10 pm 
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Joined: July 1, 2011, 2:45 pm
Posts: 19
Long time lurker, long time dreamer. I have been modeling and designing 'my car' for years now. I go through cycles, usually motivated most after visiting the Monterey Historics. Last year I hunkered down and really started working on a design I liked but have scaled back and want to build an interim car first to hone my skills better.

To hone and work on my skills over the last 8 or so years, I designed and built a Go-Kart (I like vintage karts). Then I decided I needed some more work so I designed a mini 60's F1 style go-kart for the kids (never got around to making the body =( ). I took a little too long on that one and the first child started outgrowing it.

After really working on my original concept over the last, I lucked out buying our next house which has a 1000sf detached shop. Full steam ahead!! I can finally realize my dreams of fabbing my own CNC machines and plasma cutters so I can build and fab the car. Once I learn from this car, i'll hop on to that car (well, I hope, 2 kids and all of that makes things progress a lot slower than I like!)

The concept: Lightweight mid engine Ducati power (I love their deep guttural sound, almost mini-CanAm sounding) with quasi exposed frame (not an exocet......but exposed similar to how older Ducati's used to be). Right now I am hashing out the suspension front and rear and then will lock in the chassis design around it. I have modeled the chassis and body as a concept and will work to lock the chassis in over the next few months so I can begin fabricating it. I'd love to have a roller a year from now, so that's the goal =).

In the next few weeks I hope to start building the build table which I am sizing to perform double duty as a ping pong table (when a Chassis isn't being fabbed on it, they are 9'x5')

-Bryan


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PostPosted: October 20, 2020, 11:32 pm 
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Joined: April 23, 2019, 4:30 am
Posts: 388
Location: New Zealand
This is a superb project, layout is looking good. Glad you have the digs to get it done, all the pre-thought will help progress enormously.

Got a few technical questions;

What power/weight are you targeting?
Weight distribution? Tire Sizes?
What engine size/year is planned/available?
How are you doing reverse gear?

Looking forward to seeing this one come together!

:cheers:
Marcus.


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PostPosted: October 21, 2020, 1:13 am 
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Joined: July 1, 2011, 2:45 pm
Posts: 19
Thanks Marcus. Good questions, should have included some more about power/weight etc.

With Budget in mind, we will see which Ducati engine I end up with. I have been watching ebay and craigslist/offerup to see what I can get an engine for, as well as what I can get a full bike, or salvage bike. Having done some megasquirt conversions and engine swaps in the past, I know the fuel injection/ECU costs can creep up on you even being cost conscious. If I can get a full bike, then I can take the harness, ECU, starting mechanisms and require little work.


What power/weight are you targeting?
- I'd love to keep the weight low, max 1000lbs (target 800lb). I hope to get a 1098 or 1199 Panigale engine which are about 150hp. Depending on the results, turbo isn't out of question
Weight distribution? Tire Sizes?
- 40/60 distribution. I like chunky vintage looking tires, but weight/costs/availability will have to be taken into account
What engine size/year is planned/available?
How are you doing reverse gear?
-Reverse would be a starter motor wired up to a switch, starter motor engages the diff sprocket. Some quick research proved this was doable


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PostPosted: October 21, 2020, 1:26 am 
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Joined: July 1, 2011, 2:45 pm
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As I work through the suspension model on VSusp, I am at the point of well.........I think it's ok. My latest model is here: [url]https://www.vsusp.com/#0.8%26project_name%3Adefault%20values%26trim%7Bbody_roll_angle%3A0%7Cfront.left_bump%3A0%7Crear.left_bump%3A0%7Cfront.right_bump%3A0%7Crear.right_bump%3A0%7D%26front%7Bframe.susp_type%3A0%7Cframe.bottom_y%3A10160%7Cframe.center_to_upper_mount_x%3A30479%7Cframe.bottom_to_upper_mount_y%3A25400%7Cframe.center_to_lower_mount_x%3A20320%7Cframe.bottom_to_lower_mount_y%3A7619%7Ccontrol_arms.upper_length%3A36195%7Ccontrol_arms.lower_length%3A52069%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_x%3A18097%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_x%3A12065%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_y%3A11430%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_y%3A11430%7Cknuckles.hub_to_strut_axis%3A14000%7Cknuckles.strut_incl%3A8000%7Csteering.active%3A0%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_x%3A7620%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_y%3A7620%7Cwheels.offset%3A6350%7Cwheels.diameter%3A1500%7Cwheels.diameter_expl%3A38100%7Ctires.size_convention%3A1%7Ctires.section_width%3A19500%7Ctires.aspect_ratio%3A4500%7Ctires.diameter_expl%3A60959%7Ctires.width_expl%3A22860%7Ctires.compression%3A0%7D%26rear%7Bframe.susp_type%3A0%7Cframe.bottom_y%3A10160%7Cframe.center_to_upper_mount_x%3A30479%7Cframe.bottom_to_upper_mount_y%3A33020%7Cframe.center_to_lower_mount_x%3A15238%7Cframe.bottom_to_lower_mount_y%3A11430%7Ccontrol_arms.upper_length%3A32383%7Ccontrol_arms.lower_length%3A50165%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_x%3A17780%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_x%3A15239%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_y%3A11430%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_y%3A13969%7Cknuckles.hub_to_strut_axis%3A14000%7Cknuckles.strut_incl%3A8000%7Csteering.active%3A0%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_x%3A7619%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_y%3A7620%7Cwheels.offset%3A5080%7Cwheels.diameter%3A1500%7Cwheels.diameter_expl%3A38100%7Ctires.size_convention%3A1%7Ctires.section_width%3A19500%7Ctires.aspect_ratio%3A4500%7Ctires.diameter_expl%3A60959%7Ctires.width_expl%3A25400%7Ctires.compression%3A0%7D%26pref%7Bdiag1.px_per_mm%3A200%7Cdiag1.front_or_rear%3Arear%7Ctab.active%3A3%7Cunits%3A0%7Cshow.f%3A1%7Cshow.ca%3A1%7Cshow.k%3A1%7Cshow.st%3A1%7Cshow.stl%3A1%7Cshow.w%3A1%7Cshow.t%3A1%7Cshow.rc%3A1%7Cshow.rcl%3A1%7Cshow.ic%3A1%7Cshow.icl%3A1%7Cshow.fvsa%3A0%7Cshow.tl%3A1%7Cshow.kpil%3A1%7Credraw_during_drag%3A1%7Cchart.x_axis_center%3A0%7Cchart.x_axis_window%3A10%7Cchart.x_axis_num_steps%3A21%7Cchart.x_axis_field%3Atrim.body_roll_angle%7Cchart.y_axis_fields%3A%5BFR%5D.knuckles.spindle_length%7D
[/url]

If anyone wants to take a look and give feedback that would be great. Note, uprights will be custom, so all of that can change.


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PostPosted: October 22, 2020, 10:56 am 
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Joined: April 1, 2010, 10:26 am
Posts: 564
My only reservation would be the durability of Ducati engines. I car puts a lot higher loads on an engine/transmission than a motorcycle. It looks like dry sump setup so that should help with oiling issues. I think the clutch and transmission will have a tough time. But good luck it's going to look and sound amazing.

Graham


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PostPosted: October 22, 2020, 11:26 pm 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 10:29 am
Posts: 599
Following with much interest. Although if I was going to put an Italian bike motor in a car, I'd lean towards the Aprilia V4. But that's pure bench racing.....


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PostPosted: October 28, 2020, 11:05 pm 
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Joined: July 1, 2011, 2:45 pm
Posts: 19
The thoughts and concerns on the bike engine are understandable, i've had them myself. I was toying with this idea a year ago but was thinking dual engine and talked myself out of it due to complexity.

Main goal for this build is to learn about suspension design and tuning to hopefully enable me to step up to the next design build project. If the power isn't enough.....thought's are to turbo it, or maybe even swap out for electric power with one of the smaller Tesla motors.

I've been hashing out the design a little more, might have some image updates in a week or so.

-Bryan


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PostPosted: October 29, 2020, 9:44 am 
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Joined: October 19, 2012, 9:25 pm
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Location: Summerville, SC
If you'd like a more complete body I hope to be offering up the Meerkat in hand laid fiberglass within a year.

Attachment:
meerkat.jpg


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PostPosted: November 2, 2020, 12:06 pm 
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Joined: February 20, 2015, 12:04 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Norfolk - UK
Have you come across the Australian Spartan-V:

Image

Also originally fitted with a Ducati V-twin, though they eventually abandoned it due to unreliability and fitted a Honda car engine instead:

Image

Company website


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PostPosted: November 2, 2020, 5:28 pm 
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Joined: July 1, 2011, 2:45 pm
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Yes, i've seen the Spartan before.

Also, @TooBusy, thanks for the Meerkat offer but I prefer to design/build my own body myself. I want more of an open concept to both provide the open air experience as well as provide the exposed tube-frame as Ducati does.

I've been hashing out the suspension and mounting points, steering rack position etc over the last week as can be seen in the wireframe shot.


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PostPosted: June 1, 2021, 1:24 am 
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Joined: March 26, 2012, 1:53 am
Posts: 227
Location: Mountain View, CA
beast02 wrote:
I have been watching ebay and craigslist/offerup to see what I can get an engine for, as well as what I can get a full bike, or salvage bike.



Check out https://www.copart.com/vehicleFinder/

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PostPosted: June 4, 2021, 3:17 pm 
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Joined: July 1, 2011, 2:45 pm
Posts: 19
Project update. I found a Ducati M900 Monster at the local CoPart and bought it. For anyone that hasn’t purchased on CoPart do your homework first, total price ends up being about double the auction price when you factor in fees etc :shock: . I plan to part the unused stuff out and hopefully recover a lot of that cost.


I started building the chassis build table, of course messed up cutting the last sheet for the top and need to get more wood now :BH:


Have spend the last month or so dialing in the suspension design and hope to have the chassis designed enough to place an order for the steel tube.

I will update with photos of the progress later.

-Bryan


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PostPosted: June 4, 2021, 5:00 pm 
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Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
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beast02 wrote:
As I work through the suspension model on VSusp, I am at the point of well.........I think it's ok. My latest model is here: [url]https://www.vsusp.com
[/url]

If anyone wants to take a look and give feedback that would be great. Note, uprights will be custom, so all of that can change.


Looks like nobody gave any feedback on this. I fixed your link and will take a look, maybe tweak:
default values

Tweaked the chart to show camber curves and roll center x and y:

default values

Looks pretty good on the front except there is no tire sidewall compression using the explicit sizing.

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: June 5, 2021, 7:08 am 
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A 195-45/15 inflated for the load should have a 20.93 inch (approx.) rolling radius, so it throws off your good numbers using the explicit 24 inch od:
Beast02 1954515
Adjusted for tire size and compared to results with 24 inch od, a lower RC with less travel in X and Y, more camber gain, and a longer VSA:
Beast02 1954515 Tweaked

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: June 8, 2021, 7:25 pm 
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Joined: July 1, 2011, 2:45 pm
Posts: 19
Thanks @miataV8,MstrASE,A&DP,F , i'll take a look and see how this impacts my chassis pickup points. I appreciate the look!


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