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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: March 21, 2021, 12:46 pm 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 10:29 am
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I'm considering a Lemons build featuring a Toyota starlet. At 1500 lbs. they're surprisingly quick - even with a whopping 58 HP, but how about 150 HP with a net loss in weight? OK, now things are getting interesting! But it's Lemons. They aren't strident abut going over budget, and if they think you did, they'll tack on penalties, so I'd like to keep costs under control.

So what motors come closest to fitting the bill? I used to be a dirt-biker, but I'm not really up to speed on modern street bikes. For a car application, I think that we can take air-cooled bikes out of the picture.

For me, the Yamaha R1 comes to mind. A couple of others are the big Kawasaki motors and the V-Max, but they have histories of oiling problems in car application, and none of these motors are real inexpensive, so........what's out there?


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PostPosted: March 21, 2021, 12:52 pm 
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Joined: April 23, 2019, 4:30 am
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All the info you need is here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAciRjzH3dI


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PostPosted: March 21, 2021, 6:13 pm 
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BMW K series? The k100 is a little cheaper at 90HP, and the k1200 goes up closer to 130HP, both liquid cooled.


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PostPosted: March 21, 2021, 10:31 pm 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 10:29 am
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Kinetic Research wrote:
All the info you need is here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAciRjzH3dI


That'll do!


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PostPosted: July 19, 2021, 7:37 am 
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Joined: September 3, 2012, 10:48 pm
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Location: Hamden CT.
you are asking a lot from a bike engine to run endurance events reliability wise.
the things I'm seeing you will have reliability issues with will be chains and clutches.
adding in a big oil cooler to increase the oil capacity and to keep the oil as cool as possible will be a help to keep the clutch cooler.
you will still need to keep an extra clutch on hand and design the engine install so you can swap in a new clutch quickly.
with the motorcycle EWC a clutch swap your not having to drain the oil to do a clutch swap you just lay the bike on it's side this keeps the oil in the engine.
your also going to want to find a engine that someone makes a baffled oil pan for they tend to only offer them for engines that are commonly swapped into a car application like the GSXR, R1's and such.
chain drive setups will be the next problem your going to need to deal with that's if your going to do a chain drive?
if your are doing a chain drive the longer the chain the better as it will build less heat. you will still have to fine a way to keep the chain lubed.
if your planing on a 1:45 to 2 hour stint between pit stops the chain will build a lot of heat.
this gets into how long you can run on track between pit stops for fuel.
you will need a pretty large fuel cell/tank to get to a 1:45 to 2 hour run session between stops.


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PostPosted: July 19, 2021, 5:16 pm 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 10:29 am
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Thanks. Surprisingly, bike engines have a decent record in lemons, and given that the Starlet is RWD, we can shaft-drive it, which takes care of the chain issue that one has to deal with in transaxle situations. That said, we plan to get a couple events in this year before deciding what the motor upgrade will be, and once we do, I expect we'll choose something less potentially problematic than the bike engine.


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PostPosted: July 20, 2021, 7:58 am 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
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Location: 4AGE in S.E. Michigan
A common swap into a Toyota starlet, is a 4AGE. It would be an easier build, with the same HP as your M/C engine. I had thought about building, one but all the Starlet's in Michigan have gone to the rust gods. The plus side, is there is lots of HI-PO parts for the 4AGE.
Davew


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PostPosted: July 20, 2021, 5:39 pm 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 10:29 am
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Yeah, it's hard to go wrong with the 4age. Although good, cheap ones seem to be getting harder to find. Also, the Starlet's bay is quite short, so it might be a tight fit. Unfortunately, the rear axle's pretty weak from what I've heard, so that'll probably need an upgrade as well.... I'm told that the 1st gen RX7 GSL-SE axle is a good choice.


Last edited by kreb on July 21, 2021, 10:23 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: July 21, 2021, 7:48 am 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
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Location: 4AGE in S.E. Michigan
A 24hr race is really about reliability. I've raced several 24 and 12hr races, "Bikes" and things always seem to break or get crashed. I would question how well a M/C clutch would hold up to 24hrs, even with racing plates and springs, trying to pull 1500lb car plus driver around a track. It's the team that just motors around the track without coming into the pits for repairs, is the winner. It's just not as glamorous is blowing the competition into weeds with your high HP. I think you need to look at an automotive drivetrain of some sort!
Davew


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