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 Post subject: Classic VW beetle donor
PostPosted: December 17, 2020, 8:50 am 
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I really like how most things on the classic beetle can be rebuilt with only moderate amount of skill.

Would it be worth it to make a Locost frame that supports a beetle donor?
Why would this be a terrible idea?

I appreciate any insight. I tried finding this info myself, but I didn't come up with anything useful.


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PostPosted: December 17, 2020, 11:43 am 
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try google site search site:locostusa.com beetle

Among many hits, mostly beetle windshields, I came up with this one.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13200&hilit=beetle+motor

Not what I would do. If it is your dream, then it can be done.

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PostPosted: December 17, 2020, 12:37 pm 
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@rx7locost
You beat me to it,Chuck. That's just the build I was thinking of for him. You saved me a search.

@Hangoin
I'd read that entire build log and see what you think. He left a lot out, but you'll see some obvious extra work you'd need to do for a VW engine.

If it would make you happy, then go for it.

Cheers,

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Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: December 17, 2020, 12:59 pm 
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I would not recommend going down the route, trust me!

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http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13200


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PostPosted: December 17, 2020, 1:46 pm 
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Hangoin wrote:
I really like how most things on the classic beetle can be rebuilt with only moderate amount of skill.

Would it be worth it to make a Locost frame that supports a beetle donor?
Why would this be a terrible idea?

I appreciate any insight. I tried finding this info myself, but I didn't come up with anything useful.


Define "Terrible idea".
Without relocating the VW engine it cannot look like a Locost.
But that does not mean it cannot work.
Formula Vee has been around a long time and they get decent performance despite being limited to skinny tires and beam axle front ends.
In fact you might just want to grab an old FV and start there.
They can sometimes be had pretty cheap.

This is a subject I keep in the back of my mind as I will eventually be building at least one Tatum Crusader.
It's a VW based two-seater from the 70's.
Not being a big fan of the old VW Boxer design I intend to use a Suzuki G13B Twin-Cam engine instead.
Not as simple but should get me 100 HP and 6500 RPM without spending the silly money it would take to do that with a VW engine.

Thread with pics here, viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15677&hilit=Tatum

And now you have inspired me to build a modified FV as a track toy, Suzy 1.0 and updated suspension!
Slow enough to help me stay out of serious trouble, still a genuine racer, probably does not fit into any competitive class, but would be great for track play-days.

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PostPosted: December 17, 2020, 7:55 pm 
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RichardSIA wrote:
Define "Terrible idea".
Without relocating the VW engine it cannot look like a Locost.
But that does not mean it cannot work.


Terrible idea as in relocating the engine and frankensteining a bunch of parts together, and modifying the book design a lot to make the concept work.
I looked at cwhite's build and it seems more trouble than it's worth. I guess what I'm looking for is a way to put the guts of a beetle into a sports car.
Thank you for pointing me to the Tatum Crusader and Formula Vee. Do you plan on building your crusader from scratch like a locost?


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PostPosted: December 17, 2020, 7:59 pm 
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rx7locost wrote:
try google site search site:locostusa.com beetle

Among many hits, mostly beetle windshields, I came up with this one.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13200&hilit=beetle+motor

Not what I would do. If it is your dream, then it can be done.


Yeah my dream is building an easy to work on sports car that I can have fun on country roads with. I greatly appreciate the site search tip.


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PostPosted: December 17, 2020, 8:07 pm 
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cwhite wrote:
I would not recommend going down the route, trust me!

Yeah I took a look at your build. As jealous as I am of that, it seems a lot more work than its worth.


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PostPosted: December 18, 2020, 10:56 am 
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Here is my take on the VW donor, a 1969 Karman Ghia skin on a tube frame Maxima 3.5 L V6, 6 speed drive train. A pic showing 95" wheelbase, 45" height and ~ 60" track. The roof section is on a temporary stand to locate the seating position and roll hoop locations.


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PostPosted: December 18, 2020, 1:03 pm 
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Hangoin wrote:
RichardSIA wrote:
Define "Terrible idea".
Without relocating the VW engine it cannot look like a Locost.
But that does not mean it cannot work.


Terrible idea as in relocating the engine and frankensteining a bunch of parts together, and modifying the book design a lot to make the concept work.
I looked at cwhite's build and it seems more trouble than it's worth. I guess what I'm looking for is a way to put the guts of a beetle into a sports car.
Thank you for pointing me to the Tatum Crusader and Formula Vee. Do you plan on building your crusader from scratch like a locost?


The Terrible part is using the VW engine. The torque tube and transaxle works great and fits in the book chassis with easy modification! I'm sure my 7 has the most foot room of a book chassis which is nice for my big feet!

As far as the engine goes, the $$$ have into the VW engine to make roughly 170ish HP I could have had an LS.

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Locost 7 type 1 power and a rear transaxle
Lotus Elise Sold
ND Club Miata
Nissan Titan Sold
Rubi Wrangler
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13200


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PostPosted: December 18, 2020, 2:23 pm 
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Hangoin wrote:
RichardSIA wrote:
Define "Terrible idea".
Without relocating the VW engine it cannot look like a Locost.
But that does not mean it cannot work.


Terrible idea as in relocating the engine and frankensteining a bunch of parts together, and modifying the book design a lot to make the concept work.
I looked at cwhite's build and it seems more trouble than it's worth. I guess what I'm looking for is a way to put the guts of a beetle into a sports car.
Thank you for pointing me to the Tatum Crusader and Formula Vee. Do you plan on building your crusader from scratch like a locost?


Crusader progress is slow as it is not the priority build at this time.
But I do still buy parts for it as they become available.
So I have the G13B engine and a couple of VW Bug rollers with transmissions.
I also have a Triumph GT6+ Rolling chassis.
Cheap-quick build would be a Locost style frame using the GT6 (Or Spitfire) front suspension and VW IRS rear.
But my hope is to create a monocoque in plywood for even lighter weight, and the novelty of it.

In the U.K. I have seen several VW based sports car kits offered that started as short wheel base Sand Rail copies.
Since the VW engine hangs out back placement of other components to balance the weights becomes critical.
I'm well known for despising most Japanese cars but have admittedly become somewhat fond of the Suzuki engines.
That is due to their very light weight and willingness to rev-up combined with how inexpensive and relatively simple they are.
It is also possible to convert the Suzy engines to carbs, even Webers.
K.E.P. sells the Suzy to VW adapter.
If a 1.0 55HP (Still more than a "Simple" VW) is not enough for you a Suzy 1.3 SOHC is around 80 HP and cost about the same to do.

Whatever you decide to do, have fun with it!

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PostPosted: December 18, 2020, 2:45 pm 
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Isn't there a weight advantage there?
A significant weight reduction and lower center of Gravity might be worth spending money on the motor?
How does that equate to Autocross performance?
On paper it's fairly significant, but in reality what is that payoff worth?

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PostPosted: December 18, 2020, 4:43 pm 
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For a rear engine you want it as light as possible.

Suzy 1.0 is significantly lighter than a VW boxer. Even the 1.3 or 1.6 are lighter.
You do have to add a radiator but with an electric pump it can go up front where you may want a little more weight anyway.

The price difference is huge.
Around $400.00 for the adapter, free to $200.00 for an engine, go wild with the rebuild and it is still only around $800.00 (can be much less for stock).
So the conversion can be less expensive than just a Bug lower end, or even just replacement engine cases.
The Suzy engines go 200K miles between rebuilds, VW engines are impressive if they go 50K and most "Built" versions do half that or less.
No, I am not a real fan of the leaky, slow revving, easily overheated VW engines. :lol:

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PostPosted: December 18, 2020, 10:32 pm 
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Here is a VERY innovative FV on BAT. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1977-stan-townes-the-sting-race-car-formula-vee/
I intend to snag a lot of the pictures for my own build use.
Look at how low he got the front end.

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PostPosted: December 19, 2020, 6:35 am 
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RichardSIA wrote:
For a rear engine you want it as light as possible.

free to $200.00 for an engine,


Wait a minute.. I can afford free to 200. I looked up old suzuki engines online and they're over a thousand dollars. Would this be the same engine in a old 80's Samurai?


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