LocostUSA.com

Mr Kayak fish SC
I can not remember how many cars I have built over more than sixty years. They range from the first Lotus 6 & 7 in those early days nothing fitted it required files hammer & hacksaw to get parts to fit, To Connaugt & Lago-Talbot both Grand Prix race cars 0f the early 1950s. Also Lotus elevens manufacturing adaptor plates to fit M.G.A. gearbox to Coventry Climax engines. I also built a range of Hot Rod front suspensions with dropped tube axles design and manufactured by our company Quality Rod Parts. This inclusive of chassis & shortening Jag rear ends for T Buckets 32 Fords etc. We designed & built prototype chassis for Alistar Naylor for his M.G. replica now being sold by Hutsun in U.K. We worked with Alan Staniforth read his books. I am mentioned in his book High Speed Low Cost a must read for any one who wants to build his own car.
I do not know how this stacks up against your 2.75 builds I would be delighted to have a early Mini the Sprite must be the early Frog eyed model the M.G.B. must be a chrome bumper model the V6 M.G.A. needs to be deluxe model disc brakes all round the engine must be 60 deg 3.4 liter G.M.
The Sleigh I would have no use Florida has little to no snow.
Also what that comment about sleigh ride has to do with this forum completely escapes me.

Eric Wharton

Mr Skidzzz
Yes we are looking to sell components & cars built to what ever stage the customer requires.
The rag top bows are Spridget bows bolted to car at roll bar base our car is 48 inch wide
The material is fixed to windshield frame the rear is press studs.
A local boat sail manufactured the quality is excellent but expensive over a thousand dollars
The customer has no problem entering & exiting from the car
With regard to clam shell fenders we are in the process of getting molds made,the fenders on the blue car are stock that have been reworked to fit car

Hi Mr Jack McCornack
I feel that if Lexan windshields are standard fit to NASCAR race cars with speeds up to 200 mph.
They will be more thn adequate for my car on normal road use
This is my last word on the subject

Eric Wharton

Hi Mr Trochu & Turbo-bird
Yes the exhaust systemis mounted solid to the car body panel the the brkt is 16 gage stainless steel
The brkt will flex for & aft to allow for expansion, the rear muffler mount is rubber flex.
Engine is mounted solid to the chassis by a custom brkt, this bolts to stock rubber flex mount very little rock takes place when go pedal is pressed

Eric Wharton

Cool credentials, Eric. I'm a big Allan (sp?) Staniforth fan, I never met him of course (or much less worked with him), and I'll look for your name in my copy of High Speed Low Cost.Well, if you base your safety claims on what you feel, you shouldn't claim your safety claims are based on tests. I'm pretty lenient when manufacturers make performance claims based on their feelings, but many builders make decisions based on what they believe is safest, and if they don't do the tests themselves, they have to trust their supplier's test data...which is the way it should be, since many tests destroy (or worse, do hidden damage to) the samples being tested.And how does this relate to your car? If I claimed, for example, the Kinetic's brake and clutch pedals were proven to a particular test standard, and later said "I feel that if cast aluminum brake pedals are standard fit to NASCAR race cars They will be more than adequate for my car on normal road use," people who had bought my brake pedals would be justifiably pissed off (and so would their estates, but that's a different subject).

I think your conclusion is illogical*. Other than a chemical similarity (both yours and NASCARs are made primarily of polycarbonate) your windshields have nothing in common with what NASCAR does these days. NASCAR windshields are supported around their full perimeter, yours are supported only at the sides. NASCAR windshield are convex, yours are flat. NASCAR windshields are laminated, and I think it's fair to assume you're using single sheet**. I'm sure your windshields will help (some) in a (low speed) bird strike (with a small bird) either back up your safety claims or keep them credible or I'll keep bugging you about them.

I think you could redesign your windshield to pass a rudimentary chicken test, but it'll take some effort. You'll need a rigid top frame and you'll need some sort of barrier at the scuttle (where the windshield rests) that will keep the windshield from flexing backward (into the passenger area).Pity. I hope you'll reconsider, particularly if you redesign the windshield to be more robust (you sure don't have to go to NASCAR lengths, but they aren't worried about bird strikes, they're worried about metal debris from other cars). Plus you'll earn extra points if you shoot some chickens at it.

*I was going to say [Baloney] but this is a family forum.

**Or you'd mention you were spending 20x the price of single layer to get two layer laminate.

_________________
Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

Hi Jack McCornack
Alan Staniforth was a man of great integrity who also had great sense of humor.
We considerd making the Terapin a two seater for sports car raceing
you will find me in the acknowledgements.

Eric Wharton

I have his HSLC book and his Terapin plans, too, and an acknowledgement from him is enough to get my attention--in a positive way, no less. I tip my hat to you, Erik*.

*I'm teasing you for calling him Alan.

_________________
Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

Hey,
I'm just thankful you took time to respond... almost 8 weeks later
You sound like a complete and total [ donkey ], coming on this forum, telling us what our cars are, and how yours is sooooo much better.
You dropped crap on pretty much every forum looking to promote your business, yet take ages to reply to simple questions.
You make some pretty outrageous claims and name drop or rely on what others are doing to justify your position.

FWIW, I prefer my SPAM fried, on toast, with a bit of mayo...

Jack - it's your forum. delete this post of you like

_________________
Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216

with ZERO bracing across the top of the windscreen - there's no way it'll take a 200mph chicken.

Maybe if it was 3/4" lexan.. but there's no way that that's 3/4. Maybe 1/4".

I remember reading about 5/8 lexan in aviation applications.. mind you smaller windows, heavily reinforced, and watching test pilots get cold cocked by ducks hitting between 150-200mph. they had to increase to 3/4 to get any shot at deflection.

Science is great because it doesn't lie.

_________________
Tucker

The only reference I found in the 40th anniversary edition of HSLC was under, "Known Cars Under Construction" on page 162. Unless it appears elsewhere, that's not an endorsement of character or design skill; it's simply a list of builders - was the car even completed? My own copy of the book has Allan's signature in it but other than noting him as inspiration, I wouldn't infer that that he signed off on my design.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

Not my circus and not my monkeys. I discovered (and joined) this forum about a year after the Early Adopters founded it. I eventually gained moderator status 'cause I'm such a cool guy and I was on the site a lot, but if I've given you, or anyone else, the idea that this is my forum, I need to change my sig line.When claiming chicken testing (or its many slang variations) one needs to qualify the test, since chicken tests are used in many different industries to simulate many different conditions. But the minimum "chicken test" that's crossed my eyes and ears was a 1.5 lb chicken* at 100 knots** (115 mph) which is probably a reasonable test for our sport; it simulates hitting a medium size bird while you're driving at 70 mph and the bird is approaching the scene of the accident at 45. Which is a pretty conservative test, as lots of birds are faster and/or heavier (ducks cruise at 60, and Pacific Gulls and turkey buzzards***** typically weigh StdChicken x 2).

This is one of the many ways that Locosts (and other se7ens) are not much (if any) safer than motorcycles. We worry about hitting deer, but automotive bird strikes are about 100 times as common as deer strikes, and a bird in the face will most definitely take you out of action. At the minimum, you'll be Helen Kellering your way to a parking place on the side of the road.

*Over the years, I've heard 1.5 pound (or 24 ounce) bandied about (or is that bantamed about) as the standard*** chicken, which among other things shows how long chicken testing has been used (chickens tend to be fatter nowadays).

**It was an automotive test; I think they used knots to make it sound more sciencey, or because many of the folks (as am I) doing this sort of stuff came from aviation.

***Officially****, the standard chicken weighs 680 grams, according to the model kept by the National Bureau of Standards (which was not a "model" in the modern sense of the word, it was just a machined brass cylinder with a few lightening holes and it didn't look anything like a chicken).

****That last footnote about the NBS Standard Chicken? I made that up.

*****This is from a buzzard at the 1952 Panamerica. It would have been Game Over in a proper british car.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... o_1952.jpg

_________________
Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

Another big difference between a small wind deflector and a NASCAR windscreen is that the windscreen is arched - domed. That makes an enormous difference on strength for both wind forces and impacts.

My opinion is that any small wind deflector that's hinged at the bottom will simply fold aft if hit by anything substantial.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

Yeah, I called it convex, but arched - domed is probably clearer...and when it comes to windshields, clearer is better. Anything is better than nothing if you hit something small and/or you hit it slowly. I took a bat in the face on a motorcycle, circa 1970; we were on the coast highway blasting home from Big Sur and it was a literal near death experience for my passenger and I; in a corner, with a guard rail that might have kept the Triumph from going over the cliff but wouldn't have slowed her and me from a plunge into the Pacific. I got it stopped on the asphalt, thanks to good memory of how the road was laid out (I was aiming for the apex and BAM blinded by a bat) and she directed me to the side of the road. If I'd had any sort of windshield, or even been wearing a face shield, this would have been a funny story instead of an NDE.

BTW, when we told the story later, many people thought it was funny anyway. I felt like taking the people who laughed out loud out back with a slingshot, and shooting them in their faces with field mice.

_________________
Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

I concur, I hit a small sparrow at around 45-50 mph last year with my passenger side wind wing.
Now the wing isn't tightened down with a large bolt, just two small ones, but they are as tight as I can make them and have stayed put with a number of people bumping into them gawking at the car.
As soon as the bird hit, the wing folded flat against my scuttle in an instant. I was amazed at how much force that fluff of a little bird had.
Prior to that I had a rock or some object come out of nowhere, just skimmed past the top right side windshield and careened off the top outer corner of the roll bar.
All I recall is the sound of the metal getting hit and whatever it was screaming off into the distance like a bullet from a cheap spaghetti western.
Luckily my wife wasn't there.
After the bird incident, I bought a couple of Bell shorty helmets. We now don't go anywhere in the car without them.
A full helmet may offer more protection, but it also restricts side vision somewhat, so a bit of a compromise, though I am running a windshield not screens.
I dont care what kind of screen one has the best one can hope for is that any large object is deflected enough to miss ones face before the screen fails.

Al



Al

_________________
Super Seven 3.4

This thread, Along with CT drivers, Is why I plan on wearing my full face motorcycle helmet when I eventually drive my car.

_________________
Tucker