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Hi everyone,
Short and sweet version I’m looking for suggestions on how to make a fiberglass car body 10 to 25% bigger.

Longer version below.
I and my brother picked this car up on father’s day. Still have no clue what it is but did find out that it’s too small for my fat butt. I’m posting on this forum because I have seen some nice builds and it’s a great community. If any one knows of another forum that is more fiberglass related and has a great community please let me know.
We have already decided that we are not going to do any cutting on the existing body.
The body on the car is in good condition and we do not want to screw it up.
One option is to make molds of the car, make a new body, and then cut it up to make bigger. Think we can make it taller and wider with out changing the over all styling. Only problem is it needs to be longer and I don’t know if we can make it longer without changing the styling a ton.

Is there a method to copy something and make it bigger?

Option two is I have access to a 3d scanner. I can scan the car and scale the 3d model. This should keep the over all style the same, just bigger.
If I went this route I’m looking for suggestions on how to make the plug.
Some options I’m considering is make a traditional wood buck.
I’m looked at 3d printing a buck. I have experience from my old job 3d printing prototype car parts.
I’m looking at using a router to cnc a foam buck.
All of these have pros and cons; I would have to build the 3d printer or the cnc router.
I’m trying to keep this somewhat short but if anyone is interested I can go into more detail on what I’m thinking on any of these options.
At this point in time that is all I have. Every option I have right now is a ton of work for one or maybe two cars.
Looking for any and all suggestions.

Toby.

An interesting project, and one outside my wheelhouse.

I'd think, if you're set on not modifying the original body, a wood or foam buck, sized up to your spec, then 'glassed would be the way to go. That is, assuming it'll still fit the running gear you have.

Is the kit BOF or unibody? Planning on dropping the upsized kit onto the existing running gear?

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If it were me, I'd be going the "scan the body and CNC a foam buck" route. Once you have the 3D scan it's easy to scale it up by any percentage you like. And you'll have your own CNC router when you're done so you could make bucks for other people for little extra cash.

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Bill J
442 Locost - in progress
Mid-engine Beetle - In Progess
'12 GTI - Daily
'01 Chevy Cargo Van - Workhorse parts hauler

You may want to confirm what the windscreen comes from or determining an oem application that will be a 10-25% larger version so it will fit. The rear window can be acrylic and the flat sides acrylic or laminated flat glass.
Before deciding it doesn’t fit you, remove the seat and steering wheel. The pedal box may be removable and adjustable or altered for a wider spacing (likely no room for a dead pedal rest). A smaller OD quick disconnect wheel and poured two-part foam in a trash bag may get you by. Much less work than the alternative. I’m sure a new chassis under a same size layup can be built to fit you; especially since it is a middy with no transmission in the way.

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

Yep, not many large FIAT based cars out there.

But your idea does not sound like "Mission Creep" so much as MISSION LEAP!
A couple of days ago I let a guy 6'4" tall try my Europa on for size. He actually fit pretty well.
So big guys can fit into small cars with the right adjustments.
I second the post above, see what you can do to adjust what you have.

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Hi JAMADOR,
From what I have found out the car was original an H-mod racer build in the 60’s with Fiat running gear. Looks like someone started to convert it to a street car. The car has a space frame with bolt on fiberglass body. If you’re interested you can look at this post viewtopic.php?f=18&t=20957 for more pictures.

Rennkafer,
Scan and CNC foam buck is the way I’m leaning because I think it will be the least amount of body work for the plug. Right now we do not have a CNC router but there are a few options for that. There is a maker space about an hour from my house and for $60 bucks a month I would have access to a 4x8 router. At my last job I did a lot of 3d printing and I could build a lager version with a router that would work on foam. I and my brother have a sheet metal shop and I have wanted to get a cnc router but right now can not justify the cost. Need to look into if there is a market to justify the cost.

Miatav8,
My biggest concern right now is the windscreen. I do not know what windscreen was used on the car or what I would use if I scale it. Right now the windscreen is 41” wide at the top, 47 ¾” wide at the bottom, 15” tall in the middle and 13 ½” tall at the sides. Do you know of a web page that has windscreen dimensions?

I would love to use the existing body and still looking at that option. The main reason I want to make it bigger is for safety. I would like to drive it on the street for some weekend cruses. The space frame is in bad shape. It is still restorable but less work to building a new one. If I build a new one I can change a lot of stuff and still use the body.
The pedal box is almost inline with the center of the front wheels. Not a lot of room to move but maybe some. There is some room to move the dash forward a little to gain some room for the steering wheel. So up front I think I could make the existing body work. Where I run into problems is the fuel tank is in the passenger side pod. I’m not leaving it there. There is no room up front so it has to go in the back. It looks like the original motor was front to back with the transaxle behind it. If I keep this layout the fuel cell would have to go on top of the transaxle. This might work just don’t know how big of a tank I would have. I have looked at putting a front wheel drive set up in the back of the car. Since it was original Fiat based why not put a Fiat Abarth motor in it? I also just happened to have a Fiat 500 to get dimensions from. After some quick measurements the car would have to be 8” wider to fit the motor.

That is why I’m looking at making the car bigger. If you have any suggestions I would love to hear them. At this point I’m looking at all the options.

RichardSIA,
As far as MISSION LEAP, it has me worried. I have done everything I’m looking at doing but on a much smaller scale. I have always wanted to build a full car but have always been to chicken to try it. The main reason I have not tried is getting the body to look good. If I’m going to put 1000’s of hours into something, I want it to look good. Now that I have a body I can copy, I want to go for it. I’m about 90% sure I’m going to get in over my head. That is why I’m looking for suggestions to try and avoid some of the pit falls. I think I explained why I want to make it bigger in my response to Miatav8 but if you have any suggestions on how to get around some of problems I would love to hear them.

To everyone reading this, should I start a build log at this time? It’s going to be a few months before we can start on it. Do you think I would get more feedback if it was a build log?

Toby

I have WAYYYY too many projects already or I would be trying to trade/buy this away from you to restore as a Vintage Racer. FYI, vintage racers can be big dollar toys.
Big dollar enough to pay for a larger good looking car that already fits you.
But to do that you need to find some history on what you have, along with a correct drive-train.

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If I must be a one-man PC free zone, so be it!

I am not aware of any resource for windscreen dims. I’d go to a vintage show with a tape measure or big wood caliper and look for an XKE to measure before the guy rubbing it with a diaper freaks out. Find a club where you can ask someone to measure for you online? You may need to adapt to fit something commonly available with similar curvature.

I’d consider placing a square tank in the foam lined cavity behind the radiator and bonnet vents, then add a lemans type flip cap and neck to the side. You may want to add a firewall as this is over and open to the foot well. Could also squeeze in an inch or two vertically with a deeper rocker panel, raised clips and larger od tires and wheels for modern brakes systems.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

Hi MV8,
I will have to start going to some shows and seeing what kit car clubs are close to me to get some dimensions. So far the biggest problem is it only being 15” tall. I might have to do something were 2 or 3 inches of the bottom of the wind screen goes down into the cowl area.
The foam lined cavity behind the radiator is the foot well. I have included a better picture. Your suggestion did get me thinking that if I relocate the battery there might be room behind the radiator. I will have to get some dimensions of radiators and fans. Thank you for the suggestion.
I agree that I can get an inch or two with a deeper rocker. That alone will help a lot. I put the stock 15” rims off my fiat 500 to unload it from the trailer and 185/55R15 tires fit no problem. This will let me use modern brakes.

Toby

Hi RichardSIA,

One of the reasons we are looking at making a new body is we could sale this to a vintage racer that can properly restore it. I really like the body so that is when we started talking about pulling molds, which led to making it bigger. Still trying to figure out what it is. Odds are good it was a fiat motor but no clue what the transaxle was.

Toby.

Seriously cool looking bodywork, no idea what it is but my vote is for leaving the shell 100% "as is".

Not a seriously helpful link below, but at least its a bit relevant!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxxK6dD ... RM&index=2

One of the many cars I wish I could get back was a Sports Racer "Special" that used a Ford engine, inverted Fiat transmission, and Huffaker GENIE bodywork on a home built space-frame chassis.

May be hard to believe now, but Fiat transmissions were pretty common in 60's race cars.
They were light and strong enough for the small displacement engined cars.
If you did break one they were dirt cheap to replace.

There are specialty shops for old race cars.
Someone has pics of that car in action.
Old race cars do not usually stray too far from home, so AZ and CA, maybe CO tracks are the ones to look at first.

With the Abarth style double-bubble roof I would expect Fiat powered.
Any hint of old race or class numbers under the paint?
Any numbers stamped into the roll cage?
You have a Diamond In The Rough, just need to polish the details.

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If I must be a one-man PC free zone, so be it!

If it was a vintage racer it's good odds it had a Hewland as they're pretty much the "standard" gearbox for most race cars in the period. I have seen a few oddballs like the Cooper Formula Junior I worked on that had an A series BMC engine mated to an upside down Fiat 600 gearbox but they're fairly rare. Had to fabricate a new bellhousing for it (half MG Midget/Half Fiat 600) since the one that was on it was built crooked and broke input shafts regularly.

_________________
Bill J
442 Locost - in progress
Mid-engine Beetle - In Progess
'12 GTI - Daily
'01 Chevy Cargo Van - Workhorse parts hauler

Abarth or OSCA engine would be hard to find and very expensive.
I have seen a Fiat 124 TC engine mated to a Fiat 850 trans and made mid-engine.
124 TC's are easy to find and would provide good power even in stock form.

Are there any remains of the axles present?
How the ends attach to the transaxle would go a long way toward revealing the trans that was used.
If not campaigned by a well-healed team I expect a Fiat trans as that would fit with the rest of the build and Hewland were never inexpensive.
Grab an old VW Bug trans case, flip it upside down, and see if it looks like it could fit.
If it's too big then the Fiat is almost certain.

Wish you were a little closer, I would like to take a look for myself.

_________________
If I must be a one-man PC free zone, so be it!

This car is a PBS (Paul Bob Swenson) Coupe. More info can be found on SportsRacer.net. Look for cars and then PBS. Or just Google "PBS Engineering Coupe"! I used to visit their shop in Garden Grove in the 70's and 80's.

Pictures are from SportsRacer.net

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