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PostPosted: August 31, 2021, 9:56 pm 
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So I should not invest in the new Litium mine they are trying to get going upstate?
My hunch is "Super Capacitors" rather than a revolutionary new battery chemistry.
To make a true fortune, or be No. 1 on the Hit list, figure out how.

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PostPosted: September 1, 2021, 9:21 am 
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kreb wrote:
I think that in the USA we'll still see access to ICE-powered homemade vehicles for some time to come. But yes, we are likely to become more marginalized. As I like to put it, we're all becoming "Harley-guy" which can be seen as pathetic or cool, depending on your view. (Sidebar: I just bought a 1966 motorcycle, so my position should be clear :D ).

What I expect to happen is that the government will try to manipulate the market via taxation. "You want to keep running your obsolete car? Fine, how does $15/gallon tax sound?". Don't believe me? Price out R-22 refrigerant some time.


There's something to that taxation policy in the future when people get punitive, which will happen. I thought there might still be a chance to convert to natural gas instead of gasoline. I'll probably be in "The Old Folks Home" by then, and may not care anyway [LOL].

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

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PostPosted: September 1, 2021, 10:08 am 
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NGs fall from grace has been breathtaking. For a long time one kept hearing the phrase "clean-burning natural gas". Now its another environmental pariah. The town where I work has banned it in new construction.


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PostPosted: September 1, 2021, 12:00 pm 
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There's something to that taxation policy in the future when people get punitive, which will happen.


Yes, that is one possibility, which would force me to become seriously involved in politics again.
For now I simply push back when the EV/Green mafia pronounce their directives as if it is all settled, and expect all of us to just fall into line.

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PostPosted: September 1, 2021, 6:53 pm 
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Here is an article just published today with respect to banning old cars.

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 1, 2021, 7:40 pm 
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kreb wrote:
The town where I work has banned it in new construction.


Just out of curiosity - was there a nuclear power plant, wind farm, or solar farm built to supplement this change?

I find it a bit short sighted when mandates like this are created yet nothing is done to change the fact that a lot of electricity comes from natural gas and coal. I can appreciate it taking time to get new energy options built but it always seems like power generation ends up either falling off of the radar or being a footnote.

I am not against EVs in any way. They do offer several advantages you cannot get from an IC. #1 for me is being able to "refuel" in my garage - no reason to ever hop in the car and have to make an unplanned stop on the way to work. #2 is torque. I do question the overall environmental benefit if we cannot get ourselves away from burning fossil fuels to make electricity. My prediction based on absolutely nothing is that we will see a lot of daily drivers going EV for the benefits but there will be a smaller market for IC vehicles and as a result some of these mandates will soften to allow their continued existence.

It is interesting to see an OEM jump into the conversion market but not surprising that they will not be selling directly to the public: https://www.electrive.com/2020/11/02/gm ... rsion-kit/

None of the pictures show it but I'd be interesting in seeing how it ties into the HVAC system. Not an easy swap when most people don't have the ability to safely dispose of or recharge refrigerant in their garage.

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PostPosted: October 11, 2021, 3:27 pm 
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We're teaching our youngest to drive, and it makes you think- what will her lifetime driving/car ownership experience be? She asked about EVs, and I could only equate it to the changeover from horses (animals) to mechanized power- it was gradual, up until it wasn't.. at some point, within a lifetime, someone lamented that now that they bought a newfangled car, how they didn't own horses anymore, and maybe won't even miss owning horses and all that went with them..

I make this observation as a lifelong petrohead/ gearhead.. I'm wondering aloud if we are in fact the transition generation that will have had one foot in both IC and EV technologies, and that by the time my new-driver daughter gets to be my age, she'll look back and remember that her dad used to have one of the horses that you just don't see anymore :BDH: .

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PostPosted: October 11, 2021, 4:38 pm 
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I recently watched a YT video of a Tesla Plaid drag racing a McLaren 720S, and the Tesla won easily. The writing is on the wall. Even the hardcore racers there admitted what’s in the process of happening.

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PostPosted: October 11, 2021, 9:09 pm 
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But would the result have been the same if the Tesla had to run heat races as normal for drag races?
The EV's always seem to skip over anything that might prevent their having a full charge when doing these "Oh, look what we can do" staged events. :roll:

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PostPosted: October 11, 2021, 9:32 pm 
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True, but that excuse keeps getting tougher to use as batteries get better. I assume that auto cross results would be similar. Heck, I wonder how one of those would do at the Virginia City Hillclimb.

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PostPosted: October 11, 2021, 10:41 pm 
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ccrunner wrote:
I'm wondering aloud if we are in fact the transition generation that will have had one foot in both IC and EV technologies, and that by the time my new-driver daughter gets to be my age, she'll look back and remember that her dad used to have one of the horses that you just don't see anymore :BDH: .


Or back when father actually had to drive the car to get places. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: October 12, 2021, 7:30 am 
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As I recall, for refrigerant, Dupont is the one manipulating the gov. They own the patent to r12/r22 and r134. Near the end of the patent, after which anybody can make and sell the refrigerant, they make a case to the gov about why their product should not be produced and used anymore, but the good news is they have developed a replacement waiting in the wings called r134. It is a cycle.

The refrigerant used in the last 10 years or so in cars is so envirosafe (safer than aerosol cans) that a license should not be required to work with it imho. No experience with the newer stuff. Not sure about retrofit. I have seen ebay sellers offering a replacement for r134 that seems to be just propane in an r134 can.
I see EVs like the SUV craze in the 90s. Oppressive safety and emission regulation pushed mfgs into the highly profitable truck chassis and 5000 lb curb weight loopholes.

I don’t see a fast EV as a greater achievement than oxygen tank dragsters, NOS, turbos, or big engines in little cars.

IMHO, if agendas allowed, hydrogen cell powered capacitors are the next step, eliminating the batteries entirely. Approved package systems of cell/controller/cap/motor to be used in whatever with tank size, gearing, and curb weight up to the builder/mfg. However, it would fly in the face of proprietary and designed obsolescence profit mongering the big mfgs have enjoyed for so long. Can’t let that happen.

The cells are not complicated. The cap is the storage to buffer cell output versus motor demand. An accident safe hydrogen tank and lines and infrastructure to provide idiot-proof safe refill are the hard part. “Oh, the humanity”. Much easier and profitable to have you buy a new car every few years with fewer legal challenges than a homebuilt anything.

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PostPosted: October 12, 2021, 10:17 am 
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KB58 wrote:
I recently watched a YT video of a Tesla Plaid drag racing a McLaren 720S, and the Tesla won easily. The writing is on the wall. Even the hardcore racers there admitted what’s in the process of happening.


There are three big issues with EVs for me: 1) limited range; 2) long charge time; and cost. EVs should be cheaper than they are now. I can refill the gas tank on my Explorer in 15 minutes and go another 320 miles.

That new Cadillac Lyriq fascinates me. Teslas? Meh! Great for driving into the back of a dump truck or police car [LOL]. However, driving a Lyriq from Carlsbad to San Francisco isn't practical, which is a litmus test for me. I haven't priced one, but it's probably $70K or more, and that's too much for my budget.

Maybe before I die I'll have a used one?

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: October 12, 2021, 11:19 am 
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One of my track days groups have a Telsa in the novice group, the track has a charging port and he has no problems keeping to charged all day. I see GridLife has a couple of Tesla running on there time attach classes, up against Evo9's and Subaru STI's. they are very competitive.

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PostPosted: October 13, 2021, 10:56 am 
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Dupont profits from the refrigerant race, but it's an international movement. The Montreal protocols are really the cornerstone of the whole thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol

The thing about EVs is that you have to be very disciplined to safely work on them on a non-superficial level, and many of us...aren't.

I don't mind that electric and hybrid cars are moving towards dominance in certain areas of motorsports. That's simply not an avenue that appeals to me. Put it this way: Take a plaid tesla to a drag strip. How many passes before the joy fades? OK, now take an relatively slow, but good handling car and head to some tasty twisties. I've literally driven over a thousand miles under such conditions, and it's damn near as fun on mile 999 as it is on mile one. There's more to life than ultimate speed, and there's certainly more interesting things to do than let your car do everything for you.


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