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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: May 12, 2022, 11:37 am 
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@horchoha

Thanks for the product reference, and the JD "fix", Perry. I'll see if my local welding shop carries that product or something similar.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 12, 2022, 11:49 am 
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@rx7locost

Thanks for the sketch, Chuck. I can see what you're thinking now.

There were two reasons why I cut the clevis the way I did. First, to make a wider base for welding. There's a sort of basic cone shape on the clevis shaft, just past the threads. Second, I preserved a maximum thread length, which is actually important here. The jam nut(s) and the radius rod(s) take up quite a bit of the available threads, and I wanted to preserve 1/4" of open threads (at least 1/8" each way, in and out) for adjustability with respect to camber, castor, upper ball joint location and so on. What I have now will just make that, I believe.

If the two bushing sleeves I'm making now work out, I can actually reuse the components of Jig 1.0 to make the other two bushing sleeves on the other end of the board. That will save me the time of really making something new.

Thank you very much for your efforts.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 13, 2022, 8:32 pm 
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The first two, forward, upper bushing sleeves are done. I did have my first hiccup with my Miller welder, however. More about that in a minute.

I got them tacked, and the tacks slotted for good penetration of the full welds.
Attachment:
DSC05948.JPG


The welds aren't as pretty as I'd like, but I believe they're strong enough - the important part. My 120V Miller welder has a feature called "Autoset." It's where you set the MIG wire size, and the metal thickness, and the welder figures out what voltage and wirespeed to use. My welder will do 3/16" steel tops, and that's what I set the machine to. I can see from looking at the underside of the DOM tube that the penetration is good. It's heat discolored just about the right amount without any melt through.

The thing I didn't count on was the welder not restarting after I did a partial bead. I learned to do circular welds using the 4-segment method. So, I did two segments, turned the machine off, and when I was ready to do the last two, and turned the machine on again, I got nada.

I spent 20 minutes going through all the troubleshooting steps, but nothing was amiss. I went on the Internet to find the nearest Miller repair facility thinking there was a failure of some kind. I went out to the garage, and just thought I'd try it one more time. It freakin' worked!

I learned by further reading of the operations section of the manual that the machine overheat protection had kicked in, and I just needed to let the welder cool down.
Attachment:
DSC05949.JPG


I wanted to try the setup out right away to see if I had enough thread length to do the layout with adjustability.
Attachment:
DSC05950.JPG


Here's how it will look in service. The radius rod is adjusted all the way in. It will be about 1/8" out further if all my calculations prove correct.
Attachment:
DSC05951.JPG


The finished parts slipped right into the original jig, so there was no real movement in the welding process.
Attachment:
DSC05953.JPG


Due to the acuteness of the angle, the front two are the hard ones. The rear ones are at 81 degrees versus 68.8 on the front ones. They should be easier to fit and weld.

Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 13, 2022, 9:28 pm 
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Lonnie-S wrote:
@horchoha

Thanks for the product reference, and the JD "fix", Perry. I'll see if my local welding shop carries that product or something similar.

Cheers,


To be a JD fix- it would have to include BBQ sauce (one of my favorite things in life) someplace!

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PostPosted: May 14, 2022, 11:03 am 
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BostonWill wrote:
Lonnie-S wrote:
@horchoha

Thanks for the product reference, and the JD "fix", Perry. I'll see if my local welding shop carries that product or something similar.

Cheers,


To be a JD fix- it would have to include BBQ sauce plus red beans and rice (one of my favorite things in life) someplace!


There, fixed that for ya, JD style. :mrgreen:

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 19, 2022, 10:26 pm 
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I'm not sure I can post photos right now, although I have some relevant ones.

Long story short, the 4 upper bushing DOM tubes are cut, welded and painted. Let's see if the photos posts.
Attachment:
DSC05960.JPG


They do, but you can't see them right now.

I'll have to do some serious hand-waving now as you can't see the photos. I do believe I have my "build in place" idea worked out. When you can see the photos, you'll see those photogrammetric targets I developed some time back affixed to the exposed ball joint. I'm using those targets to place the spindles such that the ball joint centers are in the right location, and match the locations I used to model the front suspension in the Suspension Analyzer software.

Secondarily, I'm creating a jig-like fixture to hold the ball joint flat plate at the correct inclination and state of levelness so that I can construct the tubular arms in place without building a fancy jig. The lower A-arm DOM bushings are completed already.I have a design in my head, and I've done drawings to give me lengths and angles for the arms. The plan is to cut them then file and grind them to fit accurately, then tack them together and do the final welding off-chassis.
Attachment:
DSC05962.JPG

Attachment:
DSC05961.JPG


So, that's about it for right now. I'll be cutting and welding for the next few days. Hopefully, I'll have all the work done before next week.

Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 19, 2022, 10:54 pm 
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Looks like you're all set to commit fabrication! :cheers:

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'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O.
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build, The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build, the Super Slant 6 Super 7


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PostPosted: May 20, 2022, 9:08 pm 
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@horchoha
Indeed, I am, Perry.


Wasn't it Leonardo Da Vinci who famously said, "Measureth thrice, weldeth once.¹" In that spirit, and before welding up the lower control arms, I did a third, full set of measurements on all the front suspension locations, verifying what I have on the build table is what I put into the Suspension Analyzer program. Since my last go-round, I have acquired a simple, digital height gauge and I wanted to see if that changed any measurements. It did. Primarily, the height of the tie rod ball joint centers, but it also had a slight impact on the lower ball joint heights too. I'll enter those new values into Suspension Analyzer tonight. I'm not expecting any significant changes, but I'll check.

A trip to my local hardware store, the one with the huge nut and bolt collection, got me the hardware pieces I need to implement my simple fixture idea for the lower control arm flat plates. If you liked my flat head screw setup on the upper control arm bushings, you'll like these even better, I think. Tomorrow, I'll implement those.

Cheers,
----------------------------------------------------------

¹ Well, OK, Leonardo didn't say that, I did. But, Leonardo didn't know how to weld either. I'm confident that if he did know how to weld, he would have said that for sure[WINK].

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 22, 2022, 11:48 pm 
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Got the simple, build-in-place fixture idea penciled out and built. The actual spindle, and consequently the upper and lower ball joints plus the tie rod mount point are located and secured by the wooden structures they are now mounted to. This little guy just puts the LCA flat plate at the right inclination, levels it front to back, and keeps it secure while I fabricate and tack weld the A-arm tubes to the chassis bushing DOMs (already built) and the flat plate itself.
Attachment:
LCA Flat Plate Fixture-small.jpg


My drill press table rotates, so I set it up to drill at the needed angle.
Attachment:
DSC05964.JPG


The ends of the flat plates sit on fender washers, which are atop 1/4-20 nuts. this provides adjustability in lateral and front to back directions.
Attachment:
DSC05965.JPG

Attachment:
DSC05966.JPG

Attachment:
DSC05968.JPG


When the leveling is done, you have two little micro-vises holding the plate securely in place.
Attachment:
DSC05969.JPG


Next task is to fab the DOM tubes, which will make up the arms. I have a HF tubing notcher and cutters, but this morning I remembered how unhappy I was with the notcher last time I used it, which was several years ago. I remember it had a small footprint mounting plate that is supposed to go on your drill press table. It wasn't very secure, and vibrated terribly. I vowed to fix it next time I used it, which is going to be now. So, that's going to be a little subproject I have to do before tackling the DOM tube arms themselves.

Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 26, 2022, 11:04 pm 
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Yup, the tubing notcher is going to be a project. :BH: It's all-around just a marginal design, but I could afford it at the time I bought it. The base is horribly small for it's 16" height and top-heavy design.

I have 8 cuts to do in 1" x 0.125" DOM tubing. It will be a challenge to get through all those. I know I need to add some square inches plus more bolt holes for my drill press table, otherwise I'm sure it will shake free and/or wobble. So, that's a little fab project all by itself. :ack:

Here's what it looks like:
Attachment:
Notcher 1.JPG

Attachment:
Notcher 5.JPG

Attachment:
Notcher 2.JPG

Attachment:
Notcher 3.JPG


Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 27, 2022, 10:48 pm 
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Location: San Tan Valley, Arizona
Lonnie, You might look here https://www.homedepot.com/b/Strut-Channel/N-5yc1vZ1z116bd as a simple option to make the base match your drill press table.
The 2' 14-guage section should be enough, if not, a pair will definitely do the trick. all the hardware for the Unistrut is on that page too.
Waltj


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PostPosted: May 28, 2022, 10:34 am 
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@waltj

That's an interesting material, Walt. I'll see what my local Home Depot stocks.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 28, 2022, 11:38 am 
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Lonnie, I have one of those too, sitting in my abandoned tools pile. Instead of a tube notcher, I use Digital Pipe Fitter https://digitalpipefitter.com/home (free version.) The output image gets captured, scaled and printed on 5x7 photo paper which gets cut, wraped and traced on the tube. I hand shape the fishmouth using a cutoff wheel and die grinder. Goes pretty quickly and works well on thin or thick wall tube. I've done a mostly tube frame with very good fit-ups at the joints.

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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

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PostPosted: May 28, 2022, 1:36 pm 
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Lonnie,

I'll go along with Tom. The HF notcher is crap. I left mine behind when I moved from Omaha to Seattle. Couldn't get it to work.

Cheers

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PostPosted: May 28, 2022, 3:24 pm 
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I just clamped my notcher in a vice and used a variable speed cordless drill to cut the notches. You can get nice slow rpm outta the drill. The drill and shaft would be horizontal.

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Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O.
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build, The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build, the Super Slant 6 Super 7


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