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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: August 10, 2022, 11:02 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
If the firewall was crushed, the upper column should hold and the column would collapse. I would rigidly mount the lower to the chassis and fully weld the upper as well as add two forward diagonals off the upper.

On earlier models, the column was expanded metal rolled into a tube to crush easily if the firewall moved back in an accident.

Wouldn't rigidly mounting the lower effectively prevent the column from collapsing in a front end collision? Or am I missing something? The purpose of getting it was to have a collapsible column. The current upper column mount is only for mockup, I planned on extending the lower tubes all the way across the two top cross tubes, and like you said, add a couple of diagonals.

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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: August 10, 2022, 11:30 am 
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Technically , we don't want anything moving back. If the intermediate shaft is not collapsible, the forward column mount and surrounding frame can absorb some of the load instead of essentially floating and the upper column taking the full force of the impact through the collapsing section. It can only collapse so far. A strong front mount can reduce how much by bending the forward framing of the firewall but it sounds like you want to make it similar to the original setup, mounted to .050 sheetmetal. There is no wrong answer.

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: August 10, 2022, 2:39 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Technically , we don't want anything moving back. If the intermediate shaft is not collapsible, the forward column mount and surrounding frame can absorb some of the load instead of essentially floating and the upper column taking the full force of the impact through the collapsing section. It can only collapse so far. A strong front mount can reduce how much by bending the forward framing of the firewall but it sounds like you want to make it similar to the original setup, mounted to .050 sheetmetal. There is no wrong answer.



Ok, now it makes sense. Thanks a lot. I wasn't necessarily trying to duplicate the original, just describing it for reference, but the way you describe it makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: August 16, 2022, 9:51 am 
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Left you a PM.

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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: August 19, 2022, 4:54 pm 
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As I was stating on the Sway Bar thread, Found a couple of Videos on YouTube (AutopiaLA) of a Guy that did a '65 Vette for himself, and a '64 Vette for his Wife. Both Autocross cars, he also does high speed tracks with his. Both have complete C4 suspensions. What caught my eye was the transverse pushrod suspension he did on both, that utilizes the original mounting points of both the center transverse leaf anchor point under the pumpkin, and the ends on the uprights that used to have the bolts that the outer ends of the springs hung on. I think I'm going to borrow his setup, extend my boot 2" to allow the oe rear sway bar to go in with the links in the original location, and still give me room for an 11+ gallon fuel tank, plus some storage for rain gear and such. As I said, this is what happens when the Wife leaves me in the 'Cave for four days....


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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: August 20, 2022, 11:17 am 
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The oem leaf and shocks would have been a lot easier and cheaper but I heard the leaf rate was too much for the vette and so worse for a lightweight locost.

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: August 29, 2022, 9:56 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
The oem leaf and shocks would have been a lot easier and cheaper but I heard the leaf rate was too much for the vette and so worse for a lightweight locost.

I know, I had the original mono leaf in for initial chassis fitup, and I had to have a hanging bolt that was about a foot long. The spring didn't even begin to de-arch from the static state. When loaded in the 'Vette, it sat almost flat. Plus, the '84 (Which is what I have), was, as you said, VERY stiff! Between 225 and 350 lbs. and no adjustment. The fronts were even worse, at close to 500 lb. This isn't all a bad thing, it kind of forced me to start learning Fusion 360, and ultimately with the pushrod setup it will give me adjustability I wouldn't have otherwise had. I'm perusing the build now to see what else I may want to have plasma / water jet cut, and try to get as much in one order as I can. Then I can make a serious dent in the suspension setup.

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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: August 29, 2022, 11:06 am 
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Here's what I have on the range of C4 spring rates...


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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: September 13, 2022, 4:52 pm 
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Got a few hours in today on the beast. There are days when I wonder "Who is going to tie my shoes".....And then there are days like today, when the dim bulb at the back of the mind glows a bit, and I smile.....
It finally dawned on me that to build out the tunnel, I didn't need to get all involved in a major fab project after all. I can keep a reasonable width on the tunnel from the rear bulkhead forward to just before the shifter, thereby giving my fat Arse enough room to slide in, and then bring the tunnel out at the shifter just past where my leg will rest, and just enough to drop a sheet straight down and clear the linkage by about a 1/2". Still leaves room for the throttle with a bit of a margin, and with the pedals where they are, I even have room for a dead pedal!


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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: September 15, 2022, 7:43 pm 
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This afternoon I made up the finalized pieces for the tunnel. Made sure they all wound up at the same angle and in the same plane. Tacked them into place, and had a seat. It isn't perfect, but it is a reasonable solution, and it eliminates having to piece and clearance the tunnel sheeting. It should also make for a nice spot for a tablet for maps, etc., or a gauge pod. One more thing figured out, on to the next.


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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: September 17, 2022, 6:06 am 
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This mod changes online the one link. You can use 1/2 inch rod or tube and the existing threaded end or a 3 inch long bolt that has the same threads at the shifter end. Spot weld a washer to the new rod as an inboard shoulder on the front end, leave room for a washer outboard and drill for a cotter or hair pin clip.

Cover the linkage after you finish the tunnel framing with .050 sheet steel, bent around a telephone pole or old driveshaft to get the radius right before cutting down to size. Adjust the bend with a one foot 2x4 (slap hammer) and the slab. You can use 1/2 inch sheet metal screws to make it removable for future access.

If it seems to tight to fit the dog legs (cut, not enough room for bent) at the front, you could opt to use 1/4x1.5x2.5 strip for the vertical leg, then drill to the same size as the bushing in the fork arm and fit a short piece of rod.


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_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: September 17, 2022, 2:47 pm 
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MiataV8, thanks for taking the time to lay that all out. It's appreciated. The pictures make it look a lot worse than it is. The perspective amplifies it. If I drop a straight edge from the dogleg down, the linkage is abut 1/2" from the straight edge. I sat in the seat and it isn't tight at all. I'm going to blend the corners, and cover it all with foam and Ultraleather or Ultrasuede, so I don't think it is going to be a problem. I'm going to leave it tacked up as it is for now, and keep going. If it looks like it will be a problem, I'll deal with it when I go to do the final welding on the tunnel.

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 Post subject: Re: SBC +442e build
PostPosted: September 18, 2022, 4:37 pm 
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Big shoutout to FastG his hospitality at New Jersey Motorsports Park today. It was an absolute blast, and I picked up a fair bit of info for my build!

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