LocostUSA.com

I actually found it on a UK MG web site and very little mention on US web sites!

The complete kit is not inexpensive but you can purchase the injector bodies and create your own config as I will attempt. I will use a microsquirt ECU, standard Holley carb HP fuel pump, Aeromotive fuel pressure reg, GM MAP, Wide band O2, and stock dist.

Here is his web site. The reviews are about drivability more than increased performance. And once the system is set, there should not be the problems with the SU carb overhaul the happens when these carbs set too long w/o running. He even told me that this application might not meet my expectations if I planned to use it for racing. It is like ant TBI system, you will be limited with having the fuel squirting at the back of the throttle valve. Plus the injector will have limits at the lower (13PSI) fuel pressure. For the total cost of a complete kit, I could have used a weber style throttle body with a microsquirt ECU and high pressure fuel pump and had more performance available. But with the MGB motor there is kind of a built in limit to its reliability as you push its limits. Plus if a state inspection is necessary one can easily disguise the SU converted carb by screwing the dash pot over the injector and all but the most astute inspector will thing it looks like its stock. And his kit is about $1k less than the Moss Motor's EFI conversion.

Here is his web site.

Thom

https://www.pattonmachine.com/shop/

_________________
Thom

Isn't that fuel pump rated at 6 psi ?
Seems a bit low for those injectors . And what's the reasoning behind the 13psi with that kit ?
Should work fine at 45 psi, and be predictable.

Cheers

I'll be the naysayer here. I don't understand how directing the injector to the backside of the throttle plate can "improve drivability. I would not be one to send 2 grand (or less for parts) unless I could actually drive one of the conversions. Have you thought of doing a one-off by putting injector bushes in either the intake manifold or by replacing the phenolic spacers with machined inserts with the injectors? The spacers shouldn't need to be phenolic with FI.

If fuel supply in his kit is going to be a problem with racing an MGB, then it will be a problem with a Locost at highway speed I think.

_________________
Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

It is 13psi because it is a gm tbi system. Since this is a two injector setup, the smallest would probably be from a v6-60 tbi since the 4 cylinder motors had a single unit that probably flowed more. At 13psi, it is probably too much for decent idling mix since there is no manifold vacuum to the regulator as-is. Some problems with running tbi injectors at 45 psi are delayed injector response from the higher pressure, the limits of the tbi pod to handle the pressure and excessive return flow when idling, heating and foaming of the fuel from cycling through multiple times enough fuel for a big block. It would create a lot of problems with no benefit to this motor except a finer mist. These things can be addressed but there is no need. A vacuum referenced external regulator makes sense with the v6 injectors on a mild mg motor.

I assume the driveability improvement they are referring to is the improved cold starting, mixture control with elevation changes, and less restrictive body for better ve, but that assumes a dialed in tune that covers the range of variables, which can’t be fully exploited with a couple trips to the dyno in the summer. That is an awful lot of work for a little hood clearance. I still like carbs.

I'll add that an injector has a spring that is designed to work with the design pressures to close the injector. The greater the pressure, the more time it takes. With enough pressure, they will leak.

They only talk about what an injector can support but at low port velocity such as idling, too large of an injector can flow too much to maintain an even mixture because it is closed most of the time. When it opens, rich, wait for it to get lean, another pulse, etc. We are talking about mili-seconds but it is another consideration. Meanwhile the return flow is maxed out, heating and cycling the excess fuel over and over again. Idling really is a terrible thing.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

This might be of interest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPTkYV23d5A
My point being, if that material holds up in his case, those injector mounts will be all right .
Makes the test a lot easier on the wallet too.

Interesting video. The difference is that a TBI injection applies pressure from the fuel line to a pod that also contains the injector. Common injectors only rely on the rails so the printed housing is not subjected to fuel pressure. Using TBI injectors in a printed TBI pod is a bad idea at normal tbi pressure, even if it is carbon filled plastic. I also would not leave an injector open for as long as he did for flow testing out of concern for overheating/damaging the injector. Injectors are always pulsed and at less than 85%; never left on.

Good point on the wallet. For an mg engine, I don’t know of any advantage to using tbi injectors if not using the tbi computer or an off the shelf solution. I don’t consider the lower pressure an advantage and since tbi has been out of production a long time, parts are going up in price.

If I wanted to inject an mg engine, I’d probably use speeduino with a vac ref FPR, gm style MAP and ECT for SD, and a set of used injectors (spares) from a very common 90s engine where two injectors match a conservative expectation of the output of the mg. I’d use a common replacement bosch type gerotor intank pump for a low output application (ford aspire, festiva, mustang 2.3l, etc).

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

I don't even dare suggest a side feed injector in a 3d printed part .
But port injector with a rail would work all right here, so any scrapyard is full of donors .
Also the microsquirt should have an injector test mode, which can help in figuring out the time delays when opening as well as the static flow rate .
And it keeps the PWM in check .

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the TBI injector for the SU HIF carb conversion. After reading more on the MGEXP web site about everone's experience with EFI conversions on the MGB motor I determined that as long as I continued to use the stock rebuilt head, I would have performance issues. Bottom line, the log style intake manifold coupled with shared intake head ports you will always be limited with what performance you will get out of the motor. King of like Ford's old 6 cyl motor they installed in the Falcon and Mustang.

There are aftermarket heads for the MGB, they give you seperate runners for the intake and exhaust plus they are crossflow designs. Thos fixes the limited performance issues with the MGB motor. But very pricey- $!.5k complete. And then you need to disassemble it, clean up the casting on the runners, and combustion chambers and then cc the chambers, lastly, replace the valve guides with bronze inserts. That adds almost another grand to the cost of the head. At that point I should go a comlpetly different way for an entire motor.

And yes, I should have maybe chosen a diferent drivetrain all together. But I'm down the rabbit's hole this far and I decided to set a limit to costs on the motor but finish it with drivability in mind. Even with all of these limits I am reminded that the original Lotus & started with a 950 cc Austin Healey Sprite motor and with its light weight and great handling it upset the world of motorsport.

So the TBI adaptors arrived along with the other many boxes I orderd to move the build forward. The machining of the units was very good! They fit like they were factory! The injectors are angled of course towards the back of the throttle plate. The GM (94 Saturn 1.9L) TBI injectors pop right in.


The injectors are not installed yet nor is the linkage between the carbs. I am searching for the linkage bar. Afraid my friend who gave me the motor misplaced the inkage parts. But a member of the MGEXP site says he has what I need and he is only about 30 miles away. Lucky score!


I orderd the TPS which is an easy design using a GM sensor mounted to a lazer cut mount that uses the barb base mount bolts


I ordered the recommended Accel fuel pressure regulator. I mounted it to the heat shield, this spot clears the exhaust manifold and will be easy to plumb and adjust. Nice piece. Waiting for the Pressure guage. Now to plump the fuel lines.

I also ordered a new oil cooler. It will sit just behing the radiator. I planned on adding an alum sheet just under the area of the frame here in front of the oil cooler. Now I am thinking about making it a small scoop with a wire grate (to block rocks) to route air to it and still control air flow after the rad.


The Rad sits on the bottom two pieces of angle iron with two built in pins on the bottom of the rad which also has rubber pads to allow some movement and has two bolts at the top two verticle pieces to secure it to the frame. Of course this places the rad cap under the nose so I will have a inline remote purge/fill cap in the upper line. But with the Harrison (Corvette style) tank at the firewall I can easily monitor the coolant level.

The MGB heater valve bolts to the back left side of the head.


My valve was shot- completly corroded. The base of the valve is cast of aluminum.


So I cut the mounting flange off of my old MGB valve and will drill out the hole for the water flow and add a nipple for a 1/2" hose. Interesting that the hole in the block is about 3/4" and the hole thru the valve is only about 3/8". Yet the valve gets a 1/2"ID hose for water flow.



But the Caterham 7 heater I got on ebay has a really nice valve installed on it.


The valve has a bypass design to it. Closed- all flow bypasses. Open- it is diverted thru the heater rad. So when I do not need heat but would like some fresh air flow under the dash to the foot area it will allow cool air to flow thru the heater and I can even turn on the fan to increase the air flow w/o heating the air. Nice in the summer!

Thom

_________________
Thom

I got my clutch kit, dist wires and should get my used MGB brake e-handle today in the mail.

I also ordered a bunch of parts from Moss Motors to complete my electrical system. They should be here next week.

Jack let me know my coil overs are being built and he is shipping the new wide left clamshell fender. If anyone needs a narrow left clamshell fender- they can have it for the cost of shipping. I really don't want to just throw it away.

Now I need to locate a microsquirt ECU. There was one on ebay- used. But it went for almost $300! I can purchase a new one with harness for $350 on Amazon. But surly there is a used one out there at a better price. I will just keep looking. If anyone has a lead, let me know!

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Thom

Respect!! for an unusual approach to the modernization of carburetors.
At first I thought how he would set them up, because there are only 2 nozzles. And then I remembered that the injectors work in pairs in parallel without a camshaft position sensor. And this is an elegant solution. Respect again)))

_________________
Do not be ashamed not to know, it's shameful not to know and not ask

"And even if they say " Yes, let them talk!
But no one - no one dies in vain,
This is better than vodka and from colds.
Others will come, replacing comfort
At the risk and inordinate work,-
Will you not passed route." V.S. Vysotsky

Patton Machine really has come up with an elegant design. He has a GM ECU that is reprogramed as part of his entire kit. But that comes from another guy. And if you need something changed- he has to write a new progtam. The software Moss Motors uses for their MGB EFI conversion is a free download for the Microsquirt. Its a great starting point and I can make adjustments to fine tune the system myself (provided I can figure it out- you out there JPS?).

And it now fits under the bonnet easily. I will use pancake style air filters for the period correct look.

The Moss conversion costs $3k. It uses Borla throttle bodies. Nice design but pricey. I looked at purchasing the borla units direct. But they cost $500 for a pair. Then you start adding the other parts. Just thought this would work almost as good and be about half the price when I'm done.

_________________
Thom

I also have a megasquitter brain. Set up briskly. It should be noted that bought not expensive.

_________________
Do not be ashamed not to know, it's shameful not to know and not ask

"And even if they say " Yes, let them talk!
But no one - no one dies in vain,
This is better than vodka and from colds.
Others will come, replacing comfort
At the risk and inordinate work,-
Will you not passed route." V.S. Vysotsky

Wow, lots of 'goings on" there, Thom. It's very interesting.

One surprise for me wasn't the engine parts, but the Caterham heater. Was this a salvage part, a new replacement part, or an aftermarket piece? I kept my donor Mustang heater core, and I can most likely figure out a way to use it, but it won't be nearly as compact as that Caterham heater will be.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

It was out of a Caterham that a repair shop had posted on ebay. I got it almost 2 yrs ago. I suspect someone took it out to prep for racing.

Another compact choice I have seen recently was on craigslist.
https://hartford.craigslist.org/pts/d/c ... 17103.html



You might take a look at this choice.

_________________
Thom

Thanks for the info and the reference.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886