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PostPosted: May 22, 2023, 10:37 am 
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Perry, thanks for stopping by. I agree about the wearing out part. Some engine designs have weak area where one function is worn before the others. The poor intake manifold gaskets are an example for the V6 GM engines. In a perfect world my engine would be totally rebuilt. It is not an air-cooled VW or 1950's era British engine. I have read reports that this engine is capable of 250K miles. My intent is to trust it to be so. I want to fix what is necessary to fix and move forward. In this case, the bottom end will stay as it is. I might check the pressure when I do MV8's oil gallery test. Since I had low compression on cyl#1 and subsequently found an exhaust valve leak on that cyl, I wanted to fix it. Had it not been for my bad exhaust manifold bolt extraction, I wouldn't be considering the head swap at all.

You are welcome to stop by any time you are in the area.

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PostPosted: May 22, 2023, 10:55 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
I'd helicoil the damaged threads, test to torque spec off the engine, organize all the springs and valves to go back into the same hole, then compare all the parts and valve wobble in the guide (opened 3/8" or so, compared to each guide), and if that's consistent, lap the seats and change the stem seals. Large radius circular marks on the deck indicate cutting/surfacing. I'd also cleanup the bowls and smooth the ports but that's time consuming.

Heads are interchangeable and easy to find used.

When I said tape the pump drive socket and extension I meant duct tape. Don't want to drop anything.


I'm thinking of swapping the one head with bad threaded hole with one from the Fiero. I have 2 extra heads sitting on my bench right now. Thus avoiding the Helicoil or Timesert. I might try to port the heads to the headers. Maybe not. I'm not looking for the highest power I can get.

As for tape. I understood that. I'll be changing out the pan gasket anyway so even if I drop the Allen adapter, I could get it out eventually. Do you think that I would be able to test oil pressure by spinning oil pump without the valvetrain in place? I think 7psi is minimum at idle, ~30 is normal when running for this engine, correct?

Thanks for your advice, as always.

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PostPosted: May 22, 2023, 11:55 am 
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I confused as to why both heads were pulled. The heads you want to swap on may be worse than what was on #1. The valvetrain is the weak link for longevity. If you don't want to spend the time on it, I suggest sending out the known bad head to a small, local machine shop for a valve job, helicoil, guides if needed and seals, then put it back on.

If you port match, do not be tempted to remove the vanes in the floor. They help a lot. I've never had any issue sealing with the valve cover gasket over the intake-head gap. Just a dab of silicone and make sure it's flat to make it easier for the valve cover gasket. Not that different from the typical v8 head-intake-block inside corner dab of silicone at the end seals.

Turn the pump by hand with the speed handle and look for pressure out of the lifters. If you can't make a mess by aggressive hand turning, plan on pulling the main caps and take a look at the lower bearing shells. With the caps in place first check end play. Also rotate the crank back and forth a little while observing each rod cap one at a time, looking for a delay in movement indicating abnormal clearance.

Those are adequate hot pressures with 5w30.

OR, back to basics. I understand pulling the head. Fix the head and put it back together. Dig if there is reason to do so.

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PostPosted: May 23, 2023, 8:50 pm 
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MV8 Thanks again. I pulled both heads because I thought they both needed help with regards to exhaust manifold bolt holes. As it turned out the one was still acceptable in that I only lost a couple of threads. Below that, the threads were in good shape. It was a good thing as the intake valve seals were shot and needed changing anyway. Easier to do off the engine than while on the engine. I also had planned on replacing both head gaskets along with all gaskets and seals on general principle. I think I'll skip the porting. I am not building a hot engine, just a comfortable cruiser. If it gets another 20K or 30k miles I'll be thrilled.

Yesterday I borrowed a spring compressor and removed all the valves. The seats were in better condition than I expected. I wire wheeled the valves to clean them up. Then tested a few valves and seats by hand lapping them. It took maybe a minute or two of hand lapping with the suction cup on a stick method. Most of the time was spent reattaching the suction cup. The seats turned out great as did the intake valves. The exhaust valves were a bit more pitted and did not clean up with a short lapping. The valve guides appear to be in good enough nick to keep them as is.
Attachment:
lapped valve.jpg


I still don’t know why the #1 exhaust valve was leaking while the other 5 supported over 155psi compression. Perhaps the buildup on the valve stem was the root cause? Or maybe a lifter was collapsed. I’ll dig into the latter in the next couple of days.

Today, just for S&Gs, I took out one of the exhaust valves from a Fiero head and it was in about the same pitted condition. I tried lapping it using the drill clamped to the stem. I gave it the ol’ college try but it had minimum effect. That seat looked good, the valve had a long way to go. Time to either buy new exhaust valves or have them dressed.

I dropped off the exhaust valves at the automotive rebuilders for a quick face grinding. I took along the bad head and they thought it could be saved economically. Economically means about ½ hour of labor. I’ll find out for certain in a couple of days.

I tested the oil pump output as MV8 suggested. An 8mm socket fit well on the pump shaft. I used a speed handle as suggested and got very little oil flow. I tried both CW and CCW rotation. Then I tried a drill to drive the socket. Still nothing to speak of. I thought I was screwed. Then I looked on the floor and it was covered with oil. I forgot that I had removed the gallery plug next to the oil filter, planning to attach a gauge. DUH! I plugged that and ran another test. I got a gusher at the #6 cyl tappets followed by #4,#2,#1,#3 and #5, in that order. Each one was progressively lower flow to the point of the last cylinder, #5, was barely flowing by the time I had to stop pumping. Oil on the 2-4-6 side was pooling up and about to run over the engine block.


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PostPosted: May 24, 2023, 11:18 am 
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With the added restriction of the lifter cup-pushrod-rocker, there should be plenty for the last cylinder to get oil. :cheers:

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PostPosted: May 25, 2023, 9:17 am 
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I thought that adding the push rods and rockers might increase the flow/pressure. Thanks.

I plan to replace the rear seal and oil pan gasket on general principles. While I'm in there, I'll likely do general house cleaning. The rear seal requires removal of the rear main. Will a visual check of that rear bearing while doing this give any indication of bearing wear of the other mains and rod bearings?

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PostPosted: May 25, 2023, 2:01 pm 
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The rocker is the restrictor and the mating surfaces on each end of the pushrod leak to lubricate those wear areas. When converting to full roller (tip and pivot) bearing rockers, the flow to the top end is often restricted more.

The bearings should be consistent with each other. It's an indicator but it isn't necessary to pull the rear main cap to change a one piece rear main seal. The change to a one piece from a rope type seal occurred around '85. You should be able to insert a sheetmetal or deck screw into the seal then pull on the screw head with pliers to remove the seal. A new one pushes in. Oil the new seal id where it will sit against the crank.

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS cheap viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
Frame LxcockpitWxengbayH
Lotus 7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: May 27, 2023, 9:19 pm 
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I picked up another used engine stand. My 1st two went to building the rotisserie. This one is crusty but will serve the purpose of working on the engine up off the floor. This will allow me to check out the MV8-method of replacing the rear seal without having to stoop down. I am getting old.

I picked up the head and refaced exhaust valves yesterday. The shop managed to save the head by inserting a TimeSert . All totaled, it was $70. What a great deal in my mind. In the meantime, I bought another tool, a torque angle gauge for the TTY (or TTA) head bolts. Another tool that I'll probably use 1 time then put in the tool box.

I got a few hours work on my engine today. I washed the heads again, then lapped the valves/seats. Everything turned out pretty nice. Then since the lapping compound I used was water based, I washed them off again. . I managed to get the #1 cylinder side head assembled before dinnertime and left it full of water again. This is the side that leaked on the exhaust valve before. We’ll check it out tomorrow. Wish me luck.

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“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

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PostPosted: May 27, 2023, 11:58 pm 
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rx7locost wrote:
I picked up another used engine stand. My 1st two went to building the rotisserie. This one is crusty but will serve the purpose of working on the engine up off the floor. This will allow me to check out the MV8-method of replacing the rear seal without having to stoop down. I am getting smarter as I get older.
There, I fixed that up for ya Chuck. :cheers:

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PostPosted: May 28, 2023, 11:07 am 
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horchoha wrote:
rx7locost wrote:
I picked up another used engine stand. My 1st two went to building the rotisserie. This one is crusty but will serve the purpose of working on the engine up off the floor. This will allow me to check out the MV8-method of replacing the rear seal without having to stoop down. I am getting smarter as I get older.
There, I fixed that up for ya Chuck. :cheers:



Thanks for that, Perry. I try to learn at least one new thing each day. I really do try. Some days I learned nothing more than "I woke up this morning, so that's a good thing". When I don't learn that I guess it is over.

I just came in from the garage for a peek. Success! Now I have to clean out the light rust formed from the water. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: May 28, 2023, 3:56 pm 
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The other, older versions of the v6-60 use traditional head bolts and a torque spec. I guess the 3.4l included a change to limited re-use, torque-to-yield bolts.

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS cheap viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
Frame LxcockpitWxengbayH
Lotus 7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: May 29, 2023, 10:39 am 
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I had to check after reading your post. It seems like the 60deg v6's were all over the map for head bolt assembly methods and torques. I hope they got it right by the time the 3.4L L32 engine came out.

My 2nd head came out just as nice as the first. It even passed my water test. :roll: Now on to cleaning and prepping valve train parts for reassembly. I hate being this far in and using dirty used parts. I at least want to clean those used parts up a bit. Time to put this puppy on the engine stand to save my back.

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Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

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PostPosted: May 31, 2023, 10:21 am 
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So far, 7 of the gummed-up lifters have been disassembled, cleaned and reassembled. They were in very crusty condition, internally. The plungers did not have full freedom of motion in the ID of the lifter. 5 more to go.

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

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PostPosted: May 31, 2023, 12:59 pm 
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rx7locost wrote:
I picked up the head and refaced exhaust valves yesterday. The shop managed to save the head by inserting a TimeSert . All totaled, it was $70. What a great deal in my mind.


That's cheaper than buying the TimeSert kit alone would cost, so you made out like a bunny in a carrot patch! :cheers:


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PostPosted: June 2, 2023, 9:52 pm 
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Thanks 300, I was expecting a lot more, maybe 2x-3x what the bill was,. If I need more machining work done, they will get my business.

I have been cleaning up the block before I open it up. A while back I picked up a Harbor Freight needle scaler. I thought I'd used it in the differential. I ended up just using a wire wheel. I hadn't gotten a change to use it until today. The engine was in bad shape WRT paint. The original was poorly cracked and blistering with rust underneath. I thought I'd give the needle scaler a try. I mean, what could it hurt? After giving it a light degreasing, I tried the scaler. What an amazing tool. with very little effort on my part, the chipped paint came off, as did the remaining paint. It is now down to the bare cast iron. I highly recommend one if you have a similar job to do.


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“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

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And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766


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