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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 4, 2021, 8:11 am 
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I was referring to structure between the forward leafspring eye and the forward chassis rails. This area is called a “torque box” on 80s mustangs. This is the area on the mgb I was referring to (and also Red’s link): http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/MGB-C ... cement.htm

Compared to a stock chassis: https://ajbengineering.com/wp-content/u ... 000758.jpg

Looks like an excellent way to improve the chassis strength. I can’t picture a more effective and practical way to do it.

I’ve not seen any specs for elasticity of cured lizard skin. I’d use a non-silicone seam sealer over paint before applying lizard skin.

Vulkhem is impressive stuff but only as strong as the paint. Made for bare aluminum, brick, and concrete. If you apply it first then paint over, it is likely there will be rust issues at the edges. Not sure how well paint adheres to vulkhem.

I use this brush-on from eastwood. A very good product imho:
https://www.eastwood.com/ew-brush-on-seam-sealer.html

I would not add a panhard with leafs.

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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 4, 2021, 8:09 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
I was referring to structure between the forward leafspring eye and the forward chassis rails. This area is called a “torque box” on 80s mustangs. This is the area on the mgb I was referring to (and also Red’s link): http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/MGB-C ... cement.htm

Compared to a stock chassis: https://ajbengineering.com/wp-content/u ... 000758.jpg

Looks like an excellent way to improve the chassis strength. I can’t picture a more effective and practical way to do it.

I’ve not seen any specs for elasticity of cured lizard skin. I’d use a non-silicone seam sealer over paint before applying lizard skin.

Vulkhem is impressive stuff but only as strong as the paint. Made for bare aluminum, brick, and concrete. If you apply it first then paint over, it is likely there will be rust issues at the edges. Not sure how well paint adheres to vulkhem.

I use this brush-on from eastwood. A very good product imho:
https://www.eastwood.com/ew-brush-on-seam-sealer.html

I would not add a panhard with leafs.

I’m looking at coil overs in the rear or air on all 4. I have my old 4 bars from the seven that are steel. I switched out for aluminum on the 7. Dan Masters build is the one I was getting ideas from. Very similar to your page. Dan’s feed back was a slot car type handling. I have some friends in Knoxville that are familiar with this car. Dan is in there british car club. He sold it on BAT and got like $68k. So the Vulkem would be going on bare steel then a diy lizard skin over it. I found out there are latex products just like it and ceramic spheres you can add to the latex. I read some guys using it on corvette restos and supposedly it’s just like Lizard.

http://www.britishv8.org/MG/DanMasters.htm

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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 5, 2021, 5:05 pm 
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Yes, excellent work imho. I'm sure a lot of money and time was poured into it.

I'd be perfectly satisfied using leafs with liners or buttons and traction aids for a restomod versus a show car.

I expect they add silica powder to support the ceramic claim. Wear a respirator if welding or grinding the area in the future to prevent silicosis.

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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 5, 2021, 10:23 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Yes, excellent work imho. I'm sure a lot of money and time was poured into it.

I'd be perfectly satisfied using leafs with liners or buttons and traction aids for a restomod versus a show car.

I expect they add silica powder to support the ceramic claim. Wear a respirator if welding or grinding the area in the future to prevent silicosis.

What are the liners or buttons? New terms to me. So the latex based paint has some ceramic balls I it but they recommend a pound per gallon of extra added of ceramic spheres. Once that goes on your all done adding stuff so the welding needs to be done.

From what I heard is Dan had pretty close to what it sold for on BAT, broke even.

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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 6, 2021, 7:45 am 
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The liners, buttons, and pads all do the same thing; reduce friction between leafs.

Without these things, leaf springs would rub against each other, primarily at the ends.
This friction wears the springs and increases the damping and spring rate for a rougher ride and bind and stick if ignored long enough.

The good news is most oems have had isolators since the 60s.

These isolators are usually made from plastic but were heavy fabric in the 50’s.

80’s cars and trucks have nylon pads that snap into holes in the leaf ends and usually a single alignment clamp for all springs for minimal friction.

I believe the 70’s mgb spring came with full length liners and alignment clamps at each end of each leaf, located by a protruding pin.

Speedway sells universal liner strips with a flanged edge or you can make your own from nylon or Teflon sheet or rolls the width of the spring.

For higher rate from extra leafs without raising the ride height, reverse eye main leafs can be used, drop blocks, or reduce the stack arc. For progressive, the extra leafs can be shimmed away or de-arced.

I’d look at making caltrack style bars for traction that provide good clearance, maybe an overrider instead, 60’s Shelby mustang bars, traction dampers used on 80’s mustangs, the list goes on. Just something to prevent the axle from rotating during accel due to spring deformation between the axle and front eye. RVs and heavy duty trucks have used coil springs in tension above the spring between the front eye and axle.

There is so many ways to do different things with leafs. Kinda like going to starbucks and trying to decide on what coffee to get.

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https://www.oann.com/the-story-of-iverm ... -the-drug/
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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 6, 2021, 9:25 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
The liners, buttons, and pads all do the same thing; reduce friction between leafs.

Without these things, leaf springs would rub against each other, primarily at the ends.
This friction wears the springs and increases the damping and spring rate for a rougher ride and bind and stick if ignored long enough.

The good news is most oems have had isolators since the 60s.

These isolators are usually made from plastic but were heavy fabric in the 50’s.

80’s cars and trucks have nylon pads that snap into holes in the leaf ends and usually a single alignment clamp for all springs for minimal friction.

I believe the 70’s mgb spring came with full length liners and alignment clamps at each end of each leaf, located by a protruding pin.

Speedway sells universal liner strips with a flanged edge or you can make your own from nylon or Teflon sheet or rolls the width of the spring.

For higher rate from extra leafs without raising the ride height, reverse eye main leafs can be used, drop blocks, or reduce the stack arc. For progressive, the extra leafs can be shimmed away or de-arced.

I’d look at making caltrack style bars for traction that provide good clearance, maybe an overrider instead, 60’s Shelby mustang bars, traction dampers used on 80’s mustangs, the list goes on. Just something to prevent the axle from rotating during accel due to spring deformation between the axle and front eye. RVs and heavy duty trucks have used coil springs in tension above the spring between the front eye and axle.

There is so many ways to do different things with leafs. Kinda like going to starbucks and trying to decide on what coffee to get.


I’ll look into it, thanks for the ideas. I cut the rear spring attachments off because I have the coilovers in my head. It wouldn’t take anything to weld new ones back on. Hmmmm, makes me think. Leafs are defiantly a easier set up that coil overs and 4bars. I did look at the cost and the cost is the same awhile back. The trouble is I have the bars.

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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 6, 2021, 4:46 pm 
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You are having too much fun cutting bits off with that plasma.

What is the eye to eye and front eye to pin length with the tape laying along the top of the top leaf?

You could use the links you have for the 4 link as traction aids.

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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 6, 2021, 8:41 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
You are having too much fun cutting bits off with that plasma.

What is the eye to eye and front eye to pin length with the tape laying along the top of the top leaf?

You could use the links you have for the 4 link as traction aids.


Guilty as charged, they got clipped. The original rear end is gone.( You’re going to have an eye roll). I gave it back to the guy who gave me the car. The pin length is going to be about 3”.
Yup I did think of the traction aids. I’m getting the idea you like leafs. I know they’re tried and true. New leafs run about $500 which this thing needed anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 7, 2021, 6:27 am 
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If you are going to spend that much, you might as well go with your original plan, but I will still talk about leafs anyway.

I found a pair of new mgb leafs for about $250 shipped. Parabolics are about $500. Not sure about the cost of the fiberglass leaf kit. Used leafs shipped from a salt free yard to rebuild may be better than new.

New leafs should be taken apart, measured, radiused at the tips, have the arc adjusted if needed, and repainted.

Since the front eye is gone, I wanted the spring dims to compare to common/cheap, spring sets for more substantial bushings and bolts, a wider leaf to better locate the axle (without relying on a skinny, tall stack of leaves for rate), improved isolators, and fewer (less friction), thicker leaves with the same stack height and curve for the same or slightly higher rate at the same ride height.

It appears that most mgb leafs are 1.750 wide with five to seven leafs. I expect the unloaded arc is probably 4.75 to 5 inches. Most common springs have a 4.75 to 6 inch unloaded arc and are 2.5 inches wide.

Arc is adjustable with a hbf hydraulic press and a fabbed shoe set from ½ inch rod and plate.

Does anyone have a leaf to tape measure each eye center to the central axle locating pin along the main leaf? I found a few vehicles with spring dims that look very promising as an mgb upgrade to go with an axle conversion.

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https://www.oann.com/fauci-hhs-officials-discuss-using-new-virus-from-china-to-enforce-universal-vaccines-in-footage-from-oct-2019/
https://www.oann.com/the-story-of-iverm ... -the-drug/
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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 7, 2021, 4:06 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
If you are going to spend that much, you might as well go with your original plan, but I will still talk about leafs anyway.

I found a pair of new mgb leafs for about $250 shipped. Parabolics are about $500. Not sure about the cost of the fiberglass leaf kit. Used leafs shipped from a salt free yard to rebuild may be better than new.

New leafs should be taken apart, measured, radiused at the tips, have the arc adjusted if needed, and repainted.

Since the front eye is gone, I wanted the spring dims to compare to common/cheap, spring sets for more substantial bushings and bolts, a wider leaf to better locate the axle (without relying on a skinny, tall stack of leaves for rate), improved isolators, and fewer (less friction), thicker leaves with the same stack height and curve for the same or slightly higher rate at the same ride height.

It appears that most mgb leafs are 1.750 wide with five to seven leafs. I expect the unloaded arc is probably 4.75 to 5 inches. Most common springs have a 4.75 to 6 inch unloaded arc and are 2.5 inches wide.

Arc is adjustable with a hbf hydraulic press and a fabbed shoe set from ½ inch rod and plate.

Does anyone have a leaf to tape measure each eye center to the central axle locating pin along the main leaf? I found a few vehicles with spring dims that look very promising as an mgb upgrade to go with an axle conversion.


I see where you going with this. I can get dimensions for this. It will take me a couple days but I’ll get them. The leafs I gave back to the guy are probably still laying where I left them.

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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 7, 2021, 4:12 pm 
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I found a chassis drawing for the mgb that shows front eye to rear shackle eye distance of 43+ inches and a leaf pin to front eye of 19+ inches. Pinto/mustang II mini-stock would be close to fitting from the axle forward but would extend an extra four inches past the shackle eye, so the shackle would need to be further back on the frame. However, the jeep wrangler (YJ) 86-95 front (4 stack) or rear (5 stack) leafs should be the ticket. Aligned with the shackle eye and the axle centered in the fender, the forward eye would need to be moved forward about 2 inches, probably a de-arc adjustment to eliminate or minimize the need for lowering blocks, and pulling out a leaf or two to reduce the rate. The jeep leafs are about $95 each new from omix. Frame eyes, urethane bushings, and shackles (to mod to fit the mgb) are fairly cheap and easy to find.

The pinto mini-stocks with the 150lb rating would be better but the excess length is bebind the axle, plus they are about $160 each.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165000371459?f ... SwaDRhFH9R

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265281280175?h ... 0180!US!-1

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https://www.oann.com/india-govt-declares-most-populated-state-officially-covid-free-after-widespread-use-of-ivermectin/
https://www.oann.com/fauci-hhs-officials-discuss-using-new-virus-from-china-to-enforce-universal-vaccines-in-footage-from-oct-2019/
https://www.oann.com/the-story-of-iverm ... -the-drug/
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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 7, 2021, 6:46 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
I found a chassis drawing for the mgb that shows front eye to rear shackle eye distance of 43+ inches and a leaf pin to front eye of 19+ inches. Pinto/mustang II mini-stock would be close to fitting from the axle forward but would extend an extra four inches past the shackle eye, so the shackle would need to be further back on the frame. However, the jeep wrangler (YJ) 86-95 front (4 stack) or rear (5 stack) leafs should be the ticket. Aligned with the shackle eye and the axle centered in the fender, the forward eye would need to be moved forward about 2 inches, probably a de-arc adjustment to eliminate or minimize the need for lowering blocks, and pulling out a leaf or two to reduce the rate. The jeep leafs are about $95 each new from omix. Frame eyes, urethane bushings, and shackles (to mod to fit the mgb) are fairly cheap and easy to find.

The pinto mini-stocks with the 150lb rating would be better but the excess length is bebind the axle, plus they are about $160 each.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165000371459?f ... SwaDRhFH9R

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265281280175?h ... 0180!US!-1

Now you have me doing the same thing. I found the spring dimensions 41-3/4 x 8-1/2". with 110lb spring rate. That seems weak, IDK

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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 7, 2021, 6:49 pm 
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Tundra 7 wrote:
Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
I found a chassis drawing for the mgb that shows front eye to rear shackle eye distance of 43+ inches and a leaf pin to front eye of 19+ inches. Pinto/mustang II mini-stock would be close to fitting from the axle forward but would extend an extra four inches past the shackle eye, so the shackle would need to be further back on the frame. However, the jeep wrangler (YJ) 86-95 front (4 stack) or rear (5 stack) leafs should be the ticket. Aligned with the shackle eye and the axle centered in the fender, the forward eye would need to be moved forward about 2 inches, probably a de-arc adjustment to eliminate or minimize the need for lowering blocks, and pulling out a leaf or two to reduce the rate. The jeep leafs are about $95 each new from omix. Frame eyes, urethane bushings, and shackles (to mod to fit the mgb) are fairly cheap and easy to find.

The pinto mini-stocks with the 150lb rating would be better but the excess length is bebind the axle, plus they are about $160 each.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165000371459?f ... SwaDRhFH9R

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265281280175?h ... 0180!US!-1

Now you have me doing the same thing. I found the spring dimensions 41-3/4 x 8-1/2". with 110lb spring rate. That seems weak, I
DK
I just found these.
https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/parabolic-springs-rear-mgb-gt.html

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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 7, 2021, 7:19 pm 
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Yep, parabolics are about $500 by the time they reach us:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/152870869201?f ... Swf15aYQB6

I'm not sure what the weight difference is between the original axle and the 8.8 but wider springs with just a custom front eye and modified shackle would be worthwhile.

If you want to go with standard replacements, they are about $100 each from Mossmotors USA. The 74 GT has a seven stack spring for about $160 each. Probably close to 150# but I don't know the stack thickness.

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https://www.oann.com/fauci-hhs-officials-discuss-using-new-virus-from-china-to-enforce-universal-vaccines-in-footage-from-oct-2019/
https://www.oann.com/the-story-of-iverm ... -the-drug/
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 Post subject: Re: MG GT V8
PostPosted: October 7, 2021, 7:27 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Yep, parabolics are about $500 by the time they reach us:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/152870869201?f ... Swf15aYQB6

I'm not sure what the weight difference is between the original axle and the 8.8 but wider springs with just a custom front eye and modified shackle would be worthwhile.

If you want to go with standard replacements, they are about $100 each from Mossmotors USA. The 74 GT has a seven stack spring for about $160 each. Probably close to 150# but I don't know the stack thickness.

I have read a lot of horrors about the new style springs having too high of arc. The British buddy i have is saying the same thing. You know I may go for the parabolics and weld the rear attachment back on. Talk about a lot less work!!

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