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PostPosted: June 2, 2022, 10:43 pm 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 6410
Location: SoCal
The BringaTrailer site has a somewhat annoying business plan, where you submit an "application" to list your car, supplying pictures and a description. They look it over and then let you know whether they'll list it - or not. After that, they chew on it a while, creating a description of their own doing, then there's some back and forth with the seller to fine tune it... Then it's listed. The whole process can take up to a month, grrr. Guess it works for them.

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PostPosted: August 26, 2022, 11:39 am 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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Location: SoCal
Short story: Midlana is sold

Long story: This is best presented chronologically. Get yourself a cup, it's a read:

    The BringaTrailer ("BaT") auction went live on 22 June and ran for the usual seven days. There was a lot of positive interest, with the bidding rising fairly steadily to the low $20K range within the first few days, where it stalled, which is typical of auctions. At that point, it hadn't yet reached my reserve price.

    The auction started on a Wednesday, and two parties asked to see the car in person, so this was arranged for that Saturday. They looked it over, and one wanted both a ride and to drive it. Both requests were denied because I didn't know his experience level, fearing that he might lose control of the car. Also, my wife said no to both requests, based upon female intuition.

    As my wife and I drove home, we both felt the same, "I really hope that guy doesn't win." Reasons included him asking things that anyone buying a full-custom one-off should know, strongly implying a lack of knowledge. More worrisome was his demanding nature, which I worried could become a real problem if he won.

    On the last day of the auction, interest took off, bidding blew past my reserve, and 2-3 bidders drove it all the way up to $55K, and it was won by... you guessed it, "that guy."

    He and a couple buddies showed up the following Saturday to collect the car, and here's where things went sideways...

    Before they arrived, I had backed the car out of the garage and smelled gas. That's not generally a problem, especially in warm weather. With a simple fuel system, air in the tank expands in warm temperatures, pushing fumes out of the vent line. Walking into the garage on a hot afternoon, I'm often greeted by a smell akin to that of a lawnmower. Anyway, this was a bit stronger, and being the morning, I shouldn't have smelled anything. Took off the engine cover and found that one of the AN fittings on the fuel line between the fuel rail to fuel pressure regulator was leaking. Well crap...

    I was in the middle of trying to repair it when they arrived... double crap. At that point, the guy was still very excited, but as I continued my repair attempts (using new hose but the old fittings, I didn't have new ones), I saw one of his buddies take him aside, talking quietly. He came back and said that he was backing out of the deal. I asked why: "You had plenty of time to check over the car, missing this", and, "If this is wrong, who knows what else might be bad." I said, "It just failed, so nothing was missed, and as for other things possibly failing, that's true of any car ever built." Anyway, it was kept civil and they went on their way.

    I immediately tried contacting  BaT to get the email addresses of bidders #2-4, but being the weekend there was no reply. Not wanting to wait until Monday, I broke out my GoogleFo skillz and figured out their addresses. I contacted all three, explaining what happened, and asked if they were still interested. None were, which surprised me. Bidder #2 did have a good excuse though, saying that he was bidding on a Lotus track car, which he went on to win. Fair enough.

    Monday, BaT got in touch and the decision was (reluctantly) made to rerun the auction. I asked what BaT planned to do about the previous "winner", and they said that he'd be blocked from bidding or commenting on my auction - okay. The relisting process took as long as listing it the first time, and it finally went live on 17 August.

    The second time, interest was far less, no doubt due to the car being somewhat tainted by the first auction's failure, the cooling economy, and an annoying comment made early on about my disclosed statement about how sometimes at cold start, the timing chain briefly rattles. The comment was that this is a really big problem that must be corrected. I spoke to my engine builder about it, because I've occasionally heard it ever since the engine was brand new. He said it's because I have a dry sump oil system, which builds pressure slower than an OEM pump, and that it's not a concern.

    I stated as much in the comments, but the guy persisted, saying that parts needed immediate replacement. I said that those parts are/were already new, and that they aren't the issue. Regardless, some damage was done (akin to being asked publicly, "have you stopped beating your wife yet?"). No matter how you answer, there's some lingering damage. As the last day of the auction approached, I was convinced that it wasn't going to sell. Interest was poor and it was well below the reserve price, and sitting at a much lower price than the first auction.

    One feature of BaT is, if anyone bids within the last two minutes, the clock is reset to two minutes again. This avoids last second snipers from gaining an advantage. Related to this, the BaT website is slightly buggy in that the displayed countdown clock at the bidder's end does not always match the clock at BaT's end, and can be off by as much as 10 seconds or so. This means that if you plan to place a bid with your clock showing less than 10 seconds, it may actually have already sold.

    As the auction entered the last two minutes, there was still little action and it hadn't yet reached the reserve. The clock kept counting down, and once it goes below 10-seconds, it can end at any time. It got all the way down to two seconds(!) when a bid came in. Apparently the car gods had smiled on me at the last second.

    That bid bought me two minutes, and additional bids trickled in, finally pushing it over the reserve. It eventually reached $31K and sold.

The first auction was great... and the second, not so much, a real slog as they say. The good news is that this winner is much more on the ball.

No story would be complete without a twist or two. The first is that the winner the second time around was in fact Bidder #2 from the first auction. Based upon his bidding history, he seems to be in a position to buy whatever play cars he wants. I'll have to ask if he bought Midlana because the Lotus track car wasn't enough :). Of course, it could also be that he saw a chance to get Midlana for roughly half what he bid the first time. 

The other twist was a snarky comment left after the bidding ended, "So that was a $22K fuel leak. Ouch." Yes - and no. My opinion - true or not - is that the first "winner" could have been a nightmare to deal with after the sale, asking endless questions about stuff he should already know and demanding that I take care of it. How much is not dealing with the above worth? Quite a bit, actually. $22K, even? Yes. And then there's what my wife and I both hoped for, so I guess we got our wish!

Regarding online auctions, BaT is the big dog when it comes to selling cars, meaning that they have a wider interest base than just about any other auction site, so there are limited alternatives. I learned something about human nature, that there are people with both a lot of play money and what I call a "shiny penny" condition. If I was selling a 1967 Mustang, I totally understand trailing bidders changing their minds and losing interest; perhaps they want to wait for another one in better condition. But in the case of a fully-custom one-off, I'm at a loss to understand how someone can lose all interest the instant that the auction ends. Oh well, live and learn.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


Last edited by KB58 on August 26, 2022, 3:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: August 26, 2022, 1:34 pm 
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Joined: April 23, 2019, 4:30 am
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Location: New Zealand
Thanks for the candid insight Kurt. Congrats on closing out the final chapter of the midlana journey on your own terms. Your car has a provenance that is unique, and like most great works underappreciated in their early years.

:cheers:


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PostPosted: August 26, 2022, 2:40 pm 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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Location: SoCal
It's going to the Memphis TN area so any Locosters in the area, keep your eyes open.

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Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


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PostPosted: August 26, 2022, 5:17 pm 
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Joined: October 10, 2010, 10:26 am
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Location: Guadalupe, CA
Kurt- I just caught up with the saga of selling your Midlana on BaT.. What a roller coaster that experience must have been! You are a much better person than I am.. I don't think I would have been as 'adult' as you were as the 1st sale fell through :BH:

As these things go though, on to the next thing; in your case, a new-to-you Jag- nice! :cheers:

Congrats on turning the page, and all you've accomplished with the builds and the books.. And thank you for sharing your experience selling your build.. in one way or another, reading your tale will at least help the next guy go in with eyes wide open..

*Also, congrats on retirement- that is a very, very big deal! woohoo! :cheers:

--ccrunner

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PostPosted: August 26, 2022, 8:46 pm 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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Location: SoCal
Oh don't worry, there were plenty of childish comments and rants offline.

Thanks for the comment. It is why I post things, to provide a data point for those who come after, and to lend an awareness about how such businesses operate. If it helps someone, great, that was the intent, and if it doesn't, it at least provides some head-shaking entertainment.

What to do next, yes, that's a big question - after finishing the interior remodel, and replacing some siding, and painting the house, yes, what to do next?!

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


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PostPosted: November 2, 2022, 1:03 am 
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Kurt, I haven't been following Midlana in years, but it was always entertaining and awe inspiring when I did. Thank you for your great forum posts. Bring a trailer is interesting, but not so attractive for people who like modifying and creating anew. Stock seems to be the mantra that most BATs love to chant. I look forward to seeing your next projects!


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PostPosted: November 2, 2022, 12:46 pm 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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Shuzo wrote:
... Stock seems to be the mantra that most BATs love to chant...

Yes... and no. If you take a first-gen Ford Bronco, restore it, put a Coyote V8 in it, they can (and do) sell on BaT for $150-250K. No, that is not a typo! Truly nuts. I can only imagine driving your $200K Bronco to a C&C event and having someone ask what you paid for it... what would you say?

I'm currently doing a home remodel myself, and also gathering parts for a CNC router. Gotta keep busy in retirement!

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


Last edited by KB58 on November 4, 2022, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: November 4, 2022, 1:23 pm 
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Reminds me of when I was selling a house. The second bidder was an engineer who removed the inspection contingencies, gave me an offer with a note that said "I see what's wrong with the house, and I also see that this is a great home and I'll gladly deal with whatever it throws at me.". The first offer OTOH was from an architect. It was $20,000 more, but came with a two-page list of things that he wanted to bring in experts on to evaluate before the offer became final. I sold to the engineer and he's become a good friend. The other guy would have been a nightmare and probably made me less money as well.


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PostPosted: November 4, 2022, 4:48 pm 
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I do thank you for the BaT "blow-by-blow" story. I watch the cars selling daily. Interesting site, and some of the pricing I just shake my head at and say, "If I only had kept that car".

Though on a much smaller scale, when my wife and I decided to move back to the mid-west from Boston area, I listed my Locost for sale. It was with great hesitation, and only because the cost to ship it or tow it back was thru the roof.

So, I listed it on Marketplace, Craigslist, MGEXP & Facebook Locost. I I had some initial flurry of activity. I responded to each (real) inquiry with as much candor as possible- explaining this is not for the average car guy.

I did have offers, some so low that I did not even respond to the sender. But I did end up with several interested parties. One was sure he understood what it was and would be there "the next weekend with cash and a trailer". Then he decided the distance from Maine to Boston was too far.

Next came a guy who came to see the car. He did not have the total skill set to finish it himself, but he "had the funds and contacts" to finish it. But his offer was low, and I had another guy coming that evening who was willing to offer me more it it was "as-advertised". So I asked to place the offer. overnight, on hold.

You can guess what's next- no showing for the 3rd guy. He kept coming up with one delay after another until I said "Don't come" after 10:30 PM.

Then comes another interested party. He sees the car, has the skills to complete it, and says "YES!" But he is going in for back surgery in 4 days. I explain that I am out of time due to the move date, and he must pick it up before that weekend. "No Problem". You can guess what's coming next- calls and says he can't get there by that date. I explain that I have to move the following week and cannot wait until he can move after the surgery. And, I have no time to drag it down to Connecticut.

Next comes a guy, at the last minute who looks at the car, and we agree on a price. He can pick it up in the time needed. 2 days go by and I reach out to confirm the date and time and he informs me that "didn't sell the car which was where the funds were coming from- so I guess I can't complete the deal". He had never mentioned he had a car to sell to do the deal.

So, I quickly called a move broker and had it picked up 2 days before the household goods leave. Added a considerable sum to the build price. But I will focus on the completion of the build before I ever try to sell it again. And, I will be much more direct with the question of "Do you have the funds to purchase it?". If they are insulted, I will tell them what my Mom used to say, "You have two problems, the 2nd one is, I don't care about your 1st one".

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PostPosted: November 4, 2022, 5:02 pm 
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kreb wrote:
Reminds me of when I was selling a house. The second bidder was an engineer who removed the inspection contingencies, gave me an offer with a note that said "I see what's wrong with the house, and I also see that this is a great home and I'll gladly deal with whatever it throws at me.". The first offer OTOH was from an architect. It was $20,000 more, but came with a two-page list of things that he wanted to bring in experts on to evaluate before the offer became final. I sold to the engineer and he's become a good friend. The other guy would have been a nightmare and probably made me less money as well.

When we sold my parent's home, the high bidder sent what was basically a love letter for the house. It would have worked, too, but was just so over-the-top that it backfired, causing us kids to just roll our eyes.

I wonder how often that happens, selling not to the highest bidder but to the one better suited. Of course in my case, it wasn't me who refused the first deal, but in hindsight, while my bank account would have been happier, I'd likely be wondering what I'd gotten myself into.

Have had zero contact with the new owner.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


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PostPosted: November 4, 2022, 5:24 pm 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

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Ugh, Thom, that is quite the (nightmare) story regarding your car. Back when it was common to sell cars via only the classifieds, or Autotrader, I ran into all the same sort of characters, just not all at once! Hopefully you still like your car... events like that can really sour a relationship.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


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PostPosted: November 4, 2022, 5:52 pm 
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KB58 wrote:
kreb wrote:
Reminds me of when I was selling a house. The second bidder was an engineer who removed the inspection contingencies, gave me an offer with a note that said "I see what's wrong with the house, and I also see that this is a great home and I'll gladly deal with whatever it throws at me.". The first offer OTOH was from an architect. It was $20,000 more, but came with a two-page list of things that he wanted to bring in experts on to evaluate before the offer became final. I sold to the engineer and he's become a good friend. The other guy would have been a nightmare and probably made me less money as well.

When we sold my parent's home, the high bidder sent what was basically a love letter for the house. It would have worked, too, but was just so over-the-top that it backfired, causing us kids to just roll our eyes.

I wonder how often that happens, selling not to the highest bidder but to the one better suited. Of course in my case, it wasn't me who refused the first deal, but in hindsight, while my bank account would have been happier, I'd likely be wondering what I'd gotten myself into.

Have had zero contact with the new owner.


My Stalker V6 has been sold 4 times since I had it. it's been an interesting process, meeting or hearing about subsequent owners. They've all had a great time and it's actually appreciated in value. Makes me feel a little warm and fuzzy, although if I heard that someone got hurt in it, that wouldn't make me too happy.


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PostPosted: November 4, 2022, 6:23 pm 
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Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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When my first car, Kimini, sold, it went to Salt Lake City UT and I never heard a word. Some years later I was contacted by its now third owner, in Texas, and I occasionally talk with him. The only negative that's come up is that because it doesn't have AC, it's no fun to drive in the summer down there.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


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PostPosted: August 3, 2023, 11:19 am 
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Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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Heard from the Midlana buyer in Memphis TN. He said that Midlana won't start, and I thought, "uh oh." It ran fine when they bought it a year ago, so what changed? I asked how much time they put on it since buying it: "about an hour." Sheez; I guess that's what happens when you have a fleet to choose from. Anyway, they had modified the flat dash software and that went fine, but when they went to start the car, it would crank but wouldn't light off. This confused both of us because the flat dash and ECU software are totally separate, with one having nothing to do with the other, and I think it’s a coincidence.

To make a long story short, the ECU isn't getting power, so I helped them the best I could remotely. I asked if they had the schematics in front of them... "what schematics?" "The ones I shipped along with all the other documentation." After they found that bundle, they seemed on their way to solving the issue. The catch was that this was one day before a track event, so it put undue pressure on them to solve it which is never good. They ended up taking a different car, and I haven't heard back whether they got it running. It was a relief that it ran fine before they messed with it, so there was never any finger-pointing going on - as I would likely have had with the first bidder, but I'm over that, I swear...

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


Last edited by KB58 on August 3, 2023, 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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