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 Post subject: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 12:08 pm 
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Joined: April 12, 2012, 11:56 am
Posts: 662
Location: Pemberton, BC
I'm testing the waters about selling my 7, and have listed it locally on Craigslist. It occurred to me, that if I really will sell it, it may be a good idea to have the purchaser sign some kind of a waiver of liability. Along the lines of, " this was built by an amateur; it could disintegrate at any moment, causing injury and/or death; no professional has had any involvement" .... that kind of stuff. Has anyone seen something like this, or has a copy that could be amended, or do we have in our midst someone who could make a template for others to share? I have no clue if this is necessary or if it would stand up in a court, but it probably wouldn't hurt.
Thoughts and ideas would be muchly appreciated.
BTW, I have listed it for $ 13,500 CDN (about $ 10,500 US) and had 6 responses. More than I thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 1:12 pm 
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Joined: April 22, 2010, 4:43 pm
Posts: 432
Location: Livermore, Calif.
Martin-
You've asked the $10,000 question! This subject comes up occasionally and I'm not sure there is an adequate answer.

Here's one approach taken by rocktman back in 2015:

http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=17742&hilit=liability

One approach would be to sell the car as a project and/or partially disassembled.

I'm curious to see the opinions of others on this board.

Cheers,
Roy

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Last edited by RoyzMG on August 8, 2018, 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 2:04 pm 
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Joined: July 17, 2008, 9:11 am
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Location: West Chicago,IL
I really don't think any waiver will protect a builder. It is good to have the buyer acknowledge in writing that he knows it was hand built by an amateur. However I don't think that it will hold any weight in a court. Further, assume the buyer becomes a seller. the subsequent buyer hasn't absolved you from any liability.

That being said, I did have the following language in the Bill Of sale signed by the buyer, a 2nd original of which I still keep.

Quote:
The Buyer acknowledges that the vehicle is a homemade vehicle, fully appreciates the risk/danger, that the Buyer agrees to have the vehicle inspected by a licensed mechanic and will have any noted items addressed. The buyer accepts all liability thereof.



In the end, contracts and waivers aside, anyone can sue for any reason. It then becomes a test of how good is your attorney vs theirs.

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 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 3:29 pm 
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Joined: September 30, 2005, 1:28 am
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Location: Sunny-Okanagan, Canada, eh?!
But you have plates, correct?, So it passed the safety inspection and the structural integrity inspection? If so, that should be "enough."

This ain't 'Murica, where people sue at the drop of a hat.

Doesn't mean you won't be sued, but it needed to pass inspections, and it passed those inspections, you should be good.

I have not sold mine yet, so take that for what it's worth.

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 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 5:16 pm 
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Joined: April 22, 2010, 4:43 pm
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Location: Livermore, Calif.
Quoting from SkinnyG's website regarding Licensing:

Quote:
This has been, by far, the most frustrating part of the project.

What is supposed to happen:

If the frame is homebuilt you may be required to undergo a Structural Integrity inspection
Apply to the province for a Ubilt VIN (technically it is a “Replikit,” but since you are not a manufacturer who can affix your own VIN, you register as a Ubilt)
The completed car must undergo a Private Vehicle Inspection
A BC-Assigned VIN is affixed by the shop that passes the vehicle
Get a weigh scale certificate


The requirements are much stricter in Canada then they are in most states. This should alleviate your fears. People in the US assume that since a car is registered by the DMV it must be somewhat safe. I'm not sure that's a valid assumption. We in the US should be a bit more concerned about the liability question.

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 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 6:52 pm 
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Now, you have coverage. Not sure that will be the case once you sell it and someone runs into it. Suits are made to settle and anybody can sue here.

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 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 10:14 pm 
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Joined: June 8, 2010, 8:02 pm
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Location: White Rock, BC, Canada
FYI, in BC (and presumably elsewhere) the inspections are there to ensure the vehicle meets the MINIMUM requirements to be on BC hwys at the time it was inspected. It's not intended to absolve any liability and will not hold up in court. The moment it leaves the Inspector's possession, it no longer is his liability. That being said; if it has something wrong with it that gets caught on the way home he will likely lose his inspection license.

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 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 8, 2018, 10:14 am 
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Joined: March 19, 2011, 10:22 am
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Location: Holden, Alberta, Canada
I would imagine it would be along the same lines as selling a home built aircraft........
https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/next-steps/selling-and-buying-articles/part-3-waiver-and-releases-buying-and-selling-a-homebuilt

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 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 8, 2018, 11:51 am 
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Joined: April 12, 2012, 11:56 am
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Location: Pemberton, BC
Thanks all for your thoughts; all very good points.
I agree that an inspected vehicle does provide some legitimacy, but like Cory says, probably not for very long. I like Chuck's idea of having the buyer go through an inspection. I would probably work that into an agreement. Perry, thanks for the link. I did that when I sold my airplane. There were some nights of tossing and turning when I went trough that process, but, there are no hordes of ICBC lawyers prowling the aviation scene. And these guys are what worries me. ( ICBC is our provincial insurance corporation, that is billions in debt and probably looking for pennies under rocks).
Anyway, for now I chickened out and took it off the market. Didn't really want to do it anyway. So the solution to the problem is easy: build a bigger garage. Problem solved. :twisted:

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My build log:
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 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 8, 2018, 12:22 pm 
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Joined: July 29, 2006, 9:10 pm
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Location: Oregon, usually
Here in the US, I had a similar waiver on a kit aircraft thrown out because the buyer signed it "under duress"; the argument being that my company wouldn't have sold him the aircraft if he hadn't signed the waiver. Hopefully 'duress' means something different in Canada.

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