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Caterham Dimensioned Locost
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Author:  killerkane [ March 31, 2011, 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Caterham Dimensioned Locost
Hello, I have been reading on these forums for a while now and have a few questions that I would like answered. For the record I just got Keith Tanner's book in the mail and plan on finishing it this weekend.

I am wondering if anyone has built a Locost to the same dimensions as a Caterham? From what I have learned a Westfield has about an inch longer wheelbase than a Cat. Would it be feasible to build one to the exact length and height? I wouldn't mind if it was a little wider, I know the Miata track width is a little wider than a Caterhams. Would it be possible to use the Caterham bodywork on a Locost, or would it be a waste of money?

I know that Caterham uses round tubing vs. the normal square on a Locost, and that the Caterham is a far more developed frame as well.

I realize that this post has quite a few holes in it so if anyone would like to fill them in I would be grateful! I am pretty scatterbrained at the moment.

There is a guy in town with two Caterhams as well as a (rich) kid in town who just bought a kit and should be building it soon, so I could possibly use their cars to get measurements off of.

Josh
Author:  firebat45 [ March 31, 2011, 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
I was under the impression that Caterham would only sell bodywork panels to verified owners of actual Caterhams, precisely to prevent people from building their own car and using Caterham panels on it.
Author:  killerkane [ March 31, 2011, 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
That may very well be, though you could find used ones or go through a Caterham owner :P

I'm not that interested in their body panels, more in the frame replication.
Author:  OzGecko [ March 31, 2011, 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
killerkane wrote:
That may very well be, though you could find used ones or go through a Caterham owner :P

I'm not that interested in their body panels, more in the frame replication.

OK, I'll ask the obvious question. Why? Copying the dimensions of a Caterham will not give you a Caterham. Not without all of the same or very closely equivalent suspension components etc.

What is it that you're actually hoping to achieve?


Dominic
Author:  Blackbird [ March 31, 2011, 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
OzGecko wrote:
OK, I'll ask the obvious question. Why? Copying the dimensions of a Caterham will not give you a Caterham.

One reason to do it or at least aspire to it is that many locosts - especially the ones built in the US, are pigs in comparison to a Caterham.
When people build a huge frame like a 442 from 11 gauge tubes ('cause they can't see how that thin stuff will hold... :roll: ) and stuff in it some truck engine that was meant to use when pulling a gardening equipment trailer and it ends up weighing 1800 lbs, that's a pig.

BTW, I bought a Caterham nose for my build directly from Caterham and was told nothing about needing to be a registered owner.

Moti
Author:  GonzoRacer [ March 31, 2011, 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
Blackbird wrote:
One reason to do it or at least aspire to it is that many locosts - especially the ones built in the US, are pigs in comparison to a Caterham.
When people build a huge frame like a 442 from 11 gauge tubes ('cause they can't see how that thin stuff will hold... :roll: ) and stuff in it some truck engine that was meant to use when pulling a gardening equipment trailer and it ends up weighing 1800 lbs, that's a pig.


Ouch! Or should I say "Oink, oink"? Don't sugarcoat things, Moti, tell us how you really feel...
:D
JD "Jenny Craig Dropout" Kemp
Author:  Blackbird [ March 31, 2011, 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
Don't worry, I'm not in the sugarcoating business :P
Truth is, many of the builds discussed in this forum are simply cobra-builder-wannabes that probably don't have the money for a cobra kit from FFR therefore settle for a bloated 7.
A guy I really like dubbed these cars Cobra7, which is right on target.

Me, I like them light.
Even if I wasn't building a BEC I could make a car engined locost that will end up at something more reasonable like 1200 lbs and probably even lighter...
Easy.

Moti
Author:  RacerDan [ March 31, 2011, 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
Moti

I originally banged out 4-5 paragraphs taking you to task for what I feel is a slight to the majorty of the subscribers on this site. I deleted all of it because I didn't feel I needed to justify my build.

I just want you to know that I take it as a bit of an insult to be slammed because my vision doesn't match yours.
Author:  Blackbird [ March 31, 2011, 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
Would you rather hear the sugarcoated truth? :shock:
I didn't speak specifically about anyone's build.
You're free to build whatever you want and I'm free to think whatever I want.
I happen to think that a major share of the builders on this side of the pond are building cars that are too big, heavy and using engines that don't go with the nature of the car, that's it.

FWIW, I also think that a lot of people are fat, and that's when folks really take offense rather than having an honest look in the mirror and telling themselves that it's true and they do need to lose some weight.

Moti
Author:  Racepedals [ March 31, 2011, 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
Moti,
"Cobra-builder-wannabes" I actually think it is backwards. Cobra kits have most the hard work done. Then it becomes an assembly exercise. I'm not kicking any Cobra builders, but most Locost builders are unique builders that like to work out problems and add some personal touches to their cars (spending years on the build) versus trying to figure out what color strips to put on the car. Anyone that builds a car from scratch, or assembles a car from a kit is doing something many only dream about.

Growing up, I aways wanted a Cobra. However, I'm building a Locost and it's not because I do not have the funds to build a Cobra. It's the experience. Plus, it gives me something to do while the wife is cleaning the house. Otherwise, I get the end of a vacuum cleaner versus a tig tourch.

Russ
Author:  killerkane [ March 31, 2011, 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
I agree with Moti on this, if I'm going to put the time and money into building a small, light car, I want it to be small and light.

So back to the original question, has anyone built a Caterham scale car? What is the name of the UK forum? It sounds like they are more into this sort of thing.
Author:  Blackbird [ March 31, 2011, 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
The UK forum is http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk .
You'll be missing out if you left the US forum altogether though since this is a much better place to get in touch with local suppliers, talk about racing related Locost info and there are a few really nice locost builds too...
This is no doubt a valueable resource for a 7 builder in NA, plus not ALL american sevens are fat :mrgreen:

My car is going to be light, I expect it to be around 1150 wet at the end.
It's not super light for a BEC but that's mainly due to the fact that it's built for wheel to wheel racing spec which include a massive rollcage, a fuel cell, fire system etc...
Racing spec adds weight.

I've had a chance to sample a Caterham R500 not too long ago, you can read about my impressions here.

Moti
Author:  firebat45 [ March 31, 2011, 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
You're slamming the heavier builds, but you're putting a rollcage and fire system in your car. Safety wasn't part of the original 7 either.

I don't think 11 gauge tubing is needed, or a V8, but the fact is that even an 1800 pound locost is a small light car compared to nearly any other vehicle. You're free to your opinion that heavy isn't in the spirit of the original car, but to generalize everyone as a Cobra wannabe is just insulting, and has nothing to do with opinions. I can say for a FACT that I am not trying to build a cheap Cobra, or a Cobra 7, or whatever you want to call it. If I wanted a Cobra I would build one.
Author:  Blackbird [ March 31, 2011, 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
firebat45 wrote:
You're slamming the heavier builds, but you're putting a rollcage and fire system in your car. Safety wasn't part of the original 7 either.

Really?
You're gonna go with that as your arguement? :roll:
firebat45 wrote:
the fact is that even an 1800 pound locost is a small light car compared to nearly any other vehicle.

It is exactly this point of view that made LocostUSA the official home of the fat 7.

Moti
Author:  98 gt [ March 31, 2011, 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Caterham Dimensioned Locost
but im not fat... im big boned
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