LocostUSA.com

first post. was thinking about a V8 T5 locost, 442e custom. could some one put this in there computer and test it. replacing tubes A1 A2 B1 C D1 D2 F1 F2 G1 G2 J1 J2 K1 K2 LC LD M1 M2 N1 N2 O O3 Q WITH 1X2 .065 vertically. all other tubes would be 1x1 .065. trans tunnel would be 1x1 .065 11 inches high with triangulation braces full length. top and bottom tunnel tubes may be 1x2 .065 vertically. tubes N1 and N2 would land at tubes M1 and M2. that's the just of the plan. my math says might only weigh 6 pounds more than the same chassi built out of 1.25x1.25 .065 with 1x1 .065 tunnel. if any one felt like taking this on I would greatly appreciate it. any other thoughts on this would be great to. thank you!

Harold,
Good morning and welcome!
First,.. Someone else in this " Building your own Frame" section drew up a similar frame and did an analysis. Don't remember who but it shouldn't take long to find.

For examples of V8, T5, 442e type frames,
http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1586
or
http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14030
or even some of the frames here,
http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php

As they say, nothing succeeds like success! And these have.

And.... With 1" x 2" you run into trouble when it is necessary to join a 1" x 1" to the 2" side. The 1.25" x 1.25" is the way to go.

And last, put together a drawing, please. If you don't already have a CAD program, the free version of SketchUp is easy and has dozens of online tutorials to help get you started.

Good luck with the build!

Ron

_________________
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Mark Twain
In my defense the moon was full and I was left unsupervised

STranger 7 thanks for the reply. haven't been able to find any analysis of rectangle tube frames. saw rods build and other 1.25 chassis. been fighting to get sketchup down loaded for the last two hours and I'm still deleting the extras and trying to get the pop ups to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!! man I hate computers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! any how at point where 1 goes into side of 2 was thinking a gusset 1 tall and 3 long made of scrap 1x2 would work great. wear there was room for it or shorter where there is not. maybe 1x1 gussets in confined areas. its obvious 1x1 and 1.25x1.25 work and work well but thinking out side the norm for a stiffer chassis with out a lot of weight penalties.

sweet not sure how long that touch but i ended up wiping my computer and starting all over again. if some one has a link for skitchup that would be great. for now im just going to try and find all my notes on my build plan.

Harold,
Yeah...Compuker problems are the worst!!
I was able to down load SketchUp 8 (not pro) for Windows from here,
http://www.sketchup.com/download/all
It was a 34.1 mb file, no extras.

I went looking for the post about rectangular frame tube analysis.
I found the one I was thinking about but it wasn't close enough to what you want to do to be of any use.

Hope you're able to sort things out.

Ron

_________________
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Mark Twain
In my defense the moon was full and I was left unsupervised

tried to sketch up a frame. not very good at it. I think this will give you an idea. looking at tube strengths I think .049 might be the ticket. but 16 will work.

ok ok that didn't work. I tried to upload sketch but I t doesn't work. any ideas.

Harold,
You probably know most of this but...
To post am image of what you have done so far, With Wondows,
Open SketchUp , open your model, press the control (ctrl) and print/scrn buttons at the same time.
You have just captured an image of what is on the screen.
now open the free graphics program, Paint.net, found here,
http://download.cnet.com/Paint-NET/3000-2192_4-10338146.html
Go to edit and select paste.

Chose expand canvas

select the crop tool

Highlite the area you want to work with / keep / post...
Go to Image and press "Crop to Selection"

Go back to Image and select "Resize"

The width needs to be around 700 pixels,

Go to File, select save as, select jpeg, press save,

Adjust the file quality so the size is close to 100 kb,

ready to post!

Also us the free tutorials!!!! They are the absolute best (free) way to get up to speed.
first
http://www.sketchup.com/learn/videos?playlist=60
then
http://www.sketchup.com/learn/videos?playlist=58

Have fun and good luck with your build

Ron

_________________
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Mark Twain
In my defense the moon was full and I was left unsupervised

Oh WOW. Instead of going thru all that, try using "snipping tool" that comes with Windows. Just draw a box (crop) around anything on the screen in any windows program and then name and save the cropped image. Period. One basic step. When you upload it here, It shows up as the actual size it was on the screen already in a small filesize. See the pic I did while writing this.

_________________
Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

maybe maybe not from the side. j1 and j2 didn't land where I thought they would. but this is a ruff idea. if rod chimes in may be I can get some ruff tunnel ideas and then ill up date again. if any one has any comments to add please chime in. thanks for the help.

Harold,
Great start!
When working with SketchUp, it's a good idea to make a "component" out of each frame piece.
It will make it easier to make changes should you want, and it helps to get a feeling for how the pieces need to be cut and how they fit together.

Go ahead and finish your frame, using the plans.
Copy Rod's tunnel for now, and add the diagonals.
Be prepared to re-work your frame as you decide on all the particulars for your build and again after you gather the main parts. Easier now before it becomes a matter slicing and re-welding steel

You're on your way, good luck!

Ron

_________________
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Mark Twain
In my defense the moon was full and I was left unsupervised

thanks for the support stranger7, rods tunnel should work because I all ready have the donor and seats. 1980 future (fox body mustang) 351/408 stroker 525hp , 4 speed.

Harold,
If you are really serious about that much weight putting out that much horsepower into a 7 style frame, you should think long and hard about just coping Rod's frame and adding a full roll cage that runs from the engine mounts back to the rear axle mounts.
What rear axle will you use? How will you hang it? IMHO, the kind of strength this beast will need won't be found in just substituting 16 ga 1"x2" tubes where your Sketch indicates.
I remember reading somewhere that a Viper handles surprisingly well even with the V10 in front. But....Fighting that kind of inertia won't give the same driving experience ( read thrill ) that a lite weight 300 hp car with a well tuned suspension will!

The 7 I'm slowly building ( you have to look a way back to find the log) will have an V6 engine that I already had. I will finish it for the learning experience at least. But the plan is to replace it with something lighter and faster ASAP!

I'm not saying your approach is wrong. Done right it would be amazing. Just not he vision the "7" was born from.

Anyway.... Do you have a pic of the motor?

Ron

_________________
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Mark Twain
In my defense the moon was full and I was left unsupervised

I agree v8 not ideal. Originally I wanted to duplicate jacks max. 70 mph 50 mpg 30 some thing horse power. Sounds like a real 7 to me but I have this car and rule changes at the track have made it illegal for it intended class. So in the spirt of locost i'm using what I have. Engine was build by local engine builder car ran 12 laps and the race was rained out. Engine was oiled and has been park for two years. doesn't look like much but man its a runner.

if I remember wright rods car was 16ga 1.25x1.25 (i'll go back and read again). reading the Torsion Constants of Tubing on the opening page of this area. it says 1x2 is a 278% increase in torsional strength from 1x1 and a 75% increase from 1.25x1.25. So I was thinking that with the extra rigidity of the tube plus addition of the extra weld area. it may add up to a substantially stiffer chassis with no real weight penalty.

I have a couple months stall time while I finish building the two bikes in the shop. so that gives me plenty of time to tinker with some of the aspects of this build before I have to weld any thing together. Rods frame is cool and it would work great and I may end up doing that. It would be easier but at the end of the day a tweak here and there and it could be better.

Harold, you would like the 1"x2" used for the upper rail to be on it's side if possible because that is the direction of the frame that needs reinforcing. The 1x2 is much stiffer in one direction than the other. The cockpit and engine bay both lack stiffness across the top part where the driver and engine prevent diagonals. So in the formula car in my avatar, the upper rail is 1"x2" but it is wide side upwards to stiffen those large openings….

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.