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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: February 16, 2021, 2:10 pm 
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Joined: January 14, 2021, 12:19 pm
Posts: 47
Hi everybody, new to the forum and new to "kit car" building. I'm a machinist by trade.
I'm gathering info about these Locost "cars" and the info is overwhelming.
First, I know that there are different chassis(drawings) available, with different sizes on the sevenesque site.
I have also found, that there is a Haynes chassis as well. I'm reading about Saturn, and others are out there.
I'm not sure yet what I want, but I know that I want to build one.
I would like to fit in it, so book chassis is out, I won't be racing with it, it will be a street "car".
I would like to have a rear A arm suspension, but not the Miata subframe(looks to be very bulky).
Not sure about an engine yet, but I would like to be over 200HP, if possible, more like 250.
Eventually, I will have to make a "roof" for it, that is easily opened and closed. I'm in LA, but I hate to much sun.
Any pointers in which direction should I go?
I'm putting together a table(workbench 6' x 30"), need to buy an MDF, or plywood for the top.
Purchased a new Lincoln LE31MP welder this weekend. I need to learn welding as well. I'm a newbie at metal building.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Anybody in San Dimas area?

Tibor


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PostPosted: February 18, 2021, 5:44 pm 
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Joined: March 1, 2011, 9:50 pm
Posts: 76
I'm building on a slightly modified haynes chassis. 14" kirkey seats barely fit. I recommend you go to the mcsorley 442 plans.

Check regulations in your state BEFORE your build to see what requirements are in place for homebuilt vehicles.

Practice welding - a lot. :cheers:
tibimakai wrote:
Hi everybody, new to the forum and new to "kit car" building. I'm a machinist by trade.
I'm gathering info about these Locost "cars" and the info is overwhelming.
First, I know that there are different chassis(drawings) available, with different sizes on the sevenesque site.
I have also found, that there is a Haynes chassis as well. I'm reading about Saturn, and others are out there.
I'm not sure yet what I want, but I know that I want to build one.
I would like to fit in it, so book chassis is out, I won't be racing with it, it will be a street "car".
I would like to have a rear A arm suspension, but not the Miata subframe(looks to be very bulky).
Not sure about an engine yet, but I would like to be over 200HP, if possible, more like 250.
Eventually, I will have to make a "roof" for it, that is easily opened and closed. I'm in LA, but I hate to much sun.
Any pointers in which direction should I go?
I'm putting together a table(workbench 6' x 30"), need to buy an MDF, or plywood for the top.
Purchased a new Lincoln LE31MP welder this weekend. I need to learn welding as well. I'm a newbie at metal building.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Anybody in San Dimas area?

Tibor


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PostPosted: February 18, 2021, 7:12 pm 
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Joined: July 17, 2008, 9:11 am
Posts: 5909
Location: West Chicago,IL
All I can say about chassis size is that a book-sized chassis will fit a bunch of body sizes. As much has to do with the seating a s the actual chassis size. I have had a 6' + and 230# passenger in a 16-1/2 inch wide cockpit (small for a book chassis) for hundreds of miles. My seating was not a race style seat like a Kirkey seat. Some prefer the aesthetics of a book or smaller chassis, others choose a wider and taller chassis to fit wider seats and a modern OHC engine. It all depends. If you sit in one and decide it fits, the same size chassis may not "fit" you based on your choices made along the way. Vice versa, if you don't fit in one, that doesn't mean you wouldn't fit in the same sized chassis with a slightly different layout.

A tilt steering wheel and a removable steering wheel will also help a larger person "fit".

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE


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PostPosted: February 18, 2021, 7:46 pm 
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Joined: December 17, 2010, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Gainesville, Mo.
I'm a plus size Boy (6', 245#s) and I managed to squeeze into a "book" frame car, but it was snug. I'm planning on building a 2-2-1 (modified Haynes) car with Miata running gear without the subframe. Jack over at Kinetic Vehicles can help you out with the layout of your A-arms and such! Also check out the build diary at cheapsportscar.net. Lots of good pics of fabbed suspension pieces for a Miata based car. And of course there's lotsa good info available here!

San Dimas, huh! I could've helped you out a few years back. Used to live in Chino(about 25 years ago)! Call the Missouri Ozarks HOME now!

Good Luck! And keep us posted! :cheers:

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PostPosted: February 18, 2021, 7:48 pm 
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Joined: March 1, 2011, 9:50 pm
Posts: 76
Lol. The kirkeys scrape on the way in and out too. It's a really tight fit. I started my build 10 years ago and I'm not sure where or how I deviated and ended up with less room than a (slightly) smaller chassis.

rx7locost wrote:
All I can say about chassis size is that a book-sized chassis will fit a bunch of body sizes. As much has to do with the seating a s the actual chassis size. I have had a 6' + and 230# passenger in a 16-1/2 inch wide cockpit (small for a book chassis) for hundreds of miles. My seating was not a race style seat like a Kirkey seat. Some prefer the aesthetics of a book or smaller chassis, others choose a wider and taller chassis to fit wider seats and a modern OHC engine. It all depends. If you sit in one and decide it fits, the same size chassis may not "fit" you based on your choices made along the way. Vice versa, if you don't fit in one, that doesn't mean you wouldn't fit in the same sized chassis with a slightly different layout.

A tilt steering wheel and a removable steering wheel will also help a larger person "fit".


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PostPosted: February 18, 2021, 7:58 pm 
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Joined: January 14, 2021, 12:19 pm
Posts: 47
Thanks guys.
I'm not sure, if I will even use the nose cone that everybody uses. I have seen a UK person on Youtube, with a GTA called home made "locost" with bike engine. He had an old school grill in front, that I really like. I need to find that video.
He had the shifter outside of the car. maybe that is to much for me, but it was cool.
I really like Morgan style cars(not the grill-from 4 - though), or the weird "eyes" from the Aero), that would be my ideal car.


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PostPosted: February 18, 2021, 8:02 pm 
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Joined: January 14, 2021, 12:19 pm
Posts: 47
found it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIjJAnTdslw


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PostPosted: February 18, 2021, 10:51 pm 
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Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 4578
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
@tibimakai

Welcome!

I'm down in Northern San Diego County, in Carlsbad. There are some finished cars down this way you could probably take a look at if you made arrangements with the builders. I believe there are some in Los Angeles and Orange Counties too. Seeing a real car will help to answer some of your questions.

My own build (still underway) is based on the Haynes roadster architecture, but a '94 base Mustang donor. It's pretty much a one-off. I made the cockpit more livable by narrowing the driveshaft tunnel. However, the footwell space is still small due to the big bell housing of the V6 (essentially the same as the 302 V8). No particular version of the chassis is perfect.

You can make the Haynes chassis work, but the larger McSorley versions are taller, which works out better for some modern donor power plants, as they require more height, or stuff sticks through the hood.

Have you settled on a donor yet? That is a big factor in selecting a chassis type, in my opinion.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: February 18, 2021, 11:04 pm 
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Joined: January 14, 2021, 12:19 pm
Posts: 47
I'm not settled on a donor yet. That is next. I also need advise for that as well.
I have wrote other posts, but they are not showing up on the forum. Why?


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PostPosted: February 19, 2021, 11:54 am 
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Joined: January 14, 2021, 12:19 pm
Posts: 47
It looks like, it takes around 24 hours to show up.
My Profile comes up with an error page #500.


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PostPosted: February 19, 2021, 11:58 am 
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I'm trying to figure out the differences between chassis.
Haynes is smaller than McSorley chassis?
I'm printing them out all of them today, and I will compare them, the problem is that there are quite a few drawings.
That is why I ask here, what are the major differences between Haynes(is the Voodoo?) and McSorley chassis.


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PostPosted: February 19, 2021, 10:40 pm 
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
tibimakai wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the differences between chassis.
Haynes is smaller than McSorley chassis?
I'm printing them out all of them today, and I will compare them, the problem is that there are quite a few drawings.
That is why I ask here, what are the major differences between Haynes(is the Voodoo?) and McSorley chassis.


I can't help you with the Voodoo chassis, but here's some info on the Haynes/McSorley comparison. The graphics below are a larger than I usually post, so you may need to scroll around in them. The red-orange chassis is the McSorley, and the dark gray is the Haynes roadster. You'll notice that the Haynes is the RHD version straight from the book. I'll add more about the McSorley later on.
Attachment:
File comment: Comparison - McSorley in red-orange (442E?) vs Haynes in dark gray
Gibbs-vs-McSorely-Chassis-3Qtr.jpg
Gibbs-vs-McSorely-Chassis-3Qtr.jpg [ 147.01 KiB | Viewed 892 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Front View of comparison
Gibbs-vs-McSorely-Chassis-Front.jpg
Gibbs-vs-McSorely-Chassis-Front.jpg [ 126.37 KiB | Viewed 892 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Profile View - McSorley (442E?) vs Haynes
Gibbs-vs-McSorely-Chassis-LHS.jpg
Gibbs-vs-McSorely-Chassis-LHS.jpg [ 66.91 KiB | Viewed 892 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: McSorley vs Haynes - Rear View
Gibbs-vs-McSorely-Chassis-Rear.jpg
Gibbs-vs-McSorely-Chassis-Rear.jpg [ 124.49 KiB | Viewed 892 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: McSorely vs Haynes - Top View
Gibbs-vs-McSorely-Chassis-Top.jpg
Gibbs-vs-McSorely-Chassis-Top.jpg [ 101.19 KiB | Viewed 892 times ]


Because there are multiple versions of the McSorley chassis, I took 3D models of each and aligned them at the firewall tubing. Thus differences are more readily apparent in terms of what is bigger/smaller in each.

I did these about 10 years ago. I think the McSorely version shown here is the 442E, which is the largest of all of them. However, I'm not positive about that.

The text below was with the models. It's from the McSorely website, so they are his words, not mine. You can take them as authoritative.

Cheers,
-----------------------------------------------

McSorley 442
An increased width, length and height using the nosecone and suspension mounting points suggested by the book. The increased width exists through the rear and the cockpit, while the front end is based on the book chassis and it uses a standard nosecone. The suspension brackets can be mounted according to the layout provided by the book, but the length of the front wishbones should be customized to be sure the track width agrees with the donor axle following assembly.

The increased length provides an additional two inches for the pedal box and another two inches in the engine bay. The increased height goes through the horizontal portion of the chassis (forward of the dashboard) to balance the over all design and accommodate taller engines. A standard nosecone that is 26 inches wide at a distance of 12 inches from the front should fit with little-to-no modification, although a tall "cowcatcher" is called for to bridge the bottom of the taller chassis with the bottom of the relatively stout nosecone.

There are some vendors manufacturing nosecones that are taller than the book design to provide even more height for the engine. For example, Champion Motor Cars used to produce an oversized nosecone that sits 13" below the top rails and an additional 1" above the top rails... placing a full 23.5" under the bonnet while leaving a relatively small 2" gap along the bottom of the 442 chassis. This oversized nosecone is still available from certain vendors. A standard book nosecone leaves a 5" gap along the bottom of this super-sized chassis, but the width is spot-on.



McSorley 442E
An increased width/length/height of 4/4/2 inches (respectively) over the original book design throughout the entire chassis, requiring a wider nosecone. Oversized nosecones are available from certain vendors, but I have not tested any of these options to see how they fit. The suspension brackets can be mounted according to the layout provided by the book, but the length of the front wishbones should be customized to be sure the track width agrees with the donor axle following assembly.

The increased length provides an additional four inches in the engine bay with a relatively "book" sized cockpit. The increased height goes through the horizontal portion of the chassis (forward of the dashboard) to balance the over all design and accommodate taller engines.

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: February 19, 2021, 10:53 pm 
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Joined: January 14, 2021, 12:19 pm
Posts: 47
Thank you very much for all that.
I don't know anything about Voodoo, Haynes, or whatever chassis. I'm learning now about the differences.
By reading all kind of forums, I have read about these chassis.
I have printed out the 442, 442E and Voodoo chassis. Where can I find the Haynes chassis drawings?
Which one has wishbone suspension at the back, and it is the largest?
So Haynes chassis, is almost the same thing, as the book chassis?
I have never learned to use a CAD software. I'm a manual prototype machinist, at a (mostly) space company and I never needed it.
By the way, we have two devices on the Mars on Perseverance, and some more, on the older rovers.


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PostPosted: February 20, 2021, 12:00 am 
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Joined: July 7, 2011, 12:17 am
Posts: 220
Location: Sandy, OR
I get the feeing you’re a larger sized human? Being a large guy myself (tall, plump, and big feet) I had a few specific needs from a frame. I went through a mock up phase making sure I fit well and a big part of that was leg room, but equally important was foot room. Many Locost’s (and Caterham’s) have very narrow pedal boxes. Notice the GINORMOUS difference in the two frames Lonnie posted. You may want to start with a simple mock up of the cockpit of various frames you're interested in. You don't need to get fancy, even cardboard will do. If you don't fit, you're never gonna be happy no matter how nice the rest of the car is.

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PostPosted: February 20, 2021, 12:05 am 
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I'm 198lbs. and 5'10" tall.
I just don't want to have issues fitting my arms in the car, so stuff like that.
For me it would be more like a weekend cruiser, than a track car.
I would prefer a Morgan 8, but I don't have money for such a car.


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