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PostPosted: February 8, 2021, 8:51 pm 
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Location: Guadalupe, CA
This is for a Non-Traditional build.. I'm thinking of modding a 61-67 Ford Econoline truck to suit my needs. They came stock with an inline 6 (iron), and I'd like to replace that with a little aluminum inline 4 cylinder (or V6?)/ automatic.. ...Stock, the truck is about 2500 lbs..

Why do this? I want the engine moved out of the cab so that I can have 3 seats, and I want some of the vehicle's weight moved toward the rear of the truck (they're notoriously light in the back). I want a small engine package, more power than the stock 6 can give, and I want the reliability and low maintenance of a modern engine. The truck will be used for light duty work, and will likely never see more than 1500 lbs total hauling/towing.

So which motor/tranny? I can do this 2 ways.. I can install the motor under the bed and just behind the cab, run a rwd auto tranny, a (short) driveshaft, and a solid-axle rear end on leaf springs... OR, I can source a FWD engine/ auto tranny, and install the whole unit at the truck's rear axle line acting as a RWD in the truck. Both of these configurations will see the engine take up a bit of bed space, which is fine.

The goal; I'd like to see about 200 HP / 200-250 lbs torque from the stock donor motor (torque is more important than HP in this case).. Can this performance be found in a 'modern' normally aspirated engine?? This build is not for speed, and will not be modded for it.. I really just want the torque. I can go forced induction if I must (stock supercharger preferred), but normally aspirated would help keep things simple.. The challenge as I see it is getting a newer engine to EASILY run stand alone.. Do you guys know of an easy way to meet these needs in a stock 4/V6 cylinder package? I'm open to any make/model donor, but I'd like to avoid the older tech/ iron block stuff if I can. I've even thought a little 4 cylinder diesel could work (would get me the torque I'm after..). Finally, I'd much prefer an auto tranny with overdrive.. there's an easy way to work this in too?

Shame on me- I haven't really kept up on where we are with modern motors and the ability to make them run without resorting to MegaSquirt and the like (I DO NOT want to go down the MegaSquirt rabbit hole).. I want to get it to run, set it, and forget it..

Not sure if I'm going to pursue this- just trying to learn about potential drivetrains for the concept..

**aside.. we've got a 2017 Ford Escape 1.5 turbo daily driver that is rated to tow 1500#, so maybe some small crossover could be the donor, but is anyone even trying to make these run standalone??

So any ideas? Am I looking at forced induction? Diesel? Will normally aspirated get me the perfomance (torque) I'm after?

As always, thanks for your insight-

--ccrunner


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Last edited by ccrunner on February 9, 2021, 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: February 8, 2021, 10:11 pm 
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That would be one sweet project ccrunner. Is that a stock photo or do you already own the Econoline truck?

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PostPosted: February 8, 2021, 10:33 pm 
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horchoha wrote:
That would be one sweet project ccrunner. Is that a stock photo or do you already own the Econoline truck?


..No, I don't have one- I just found that pic online.. they made these with quarter windows too (5 window), which is the version I'd likely seek out..

Modding one of these is something I've kicked around in my head for awhile, and it seems feasible enough to go from the daydreaming phase to the 'start asking dumb questions phase' :lol:

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1972 Honda N600 Restomod "ccrunner's N600 VFR800 repower"

1963 Volvo P1800 Restomod
http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=16309

1959 Berkeley SE492 Restomod...
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19397

"ccrunner's 1960 MGA coupe Restomod" found on MGExp.com


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PostPosted: February 8, 2021, 10:34 pm 
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You always have such interesting builds. The first thing that comes to mind is a V6, should be a few inches shorter than an I-4. Maybe there is some non-boosted I-4s out there that will get you the performance you want. I don't know. I do know that my 2015 2.0L Ford escape needs a turbo to get 240hp/279 tq. A 2004–2007 Cadillac CTS 255 hp /252 lb⋅ft NA all aluminum V6 might be interesting.

Then comes the obvious thought of this car's similarity to an A100 Dodge (aka Little Red Wagon). In that wheel standing build, they put the engine, trans and diff (no driveshaft) on a swing-arm subframe. That might work if you are looking for a fair amount of rear wheel travel.

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Last edited by rx7locost on February 9, 2021, 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: February 9, 2021, 1:23 am 
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A neighbor has a Corvair PU he would probably sell, might even be cheap.
I think he also has the engine/trans in pieces but per your description you would not need them.

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PostPosted: February 9, 2021, 3:02 am 
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Joined: January 18, 2015, 2:34 am
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Find a 2.3 or 2.5l Duratec. You can probably find one easily with an auto. Should be a drop-in. You’ll need a high pressure fuel pump so when you’re at the junk yard, grab that and the ECU/ wiring harness as well. It’s a well matched drivetrain that should provide more than sufficient power.


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PostPosted: February 9, 2021, 8:54 am 
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A V6 would meet the power requirements right out of the box and short enough that you could mount it rearward in the current engine bay, and than section [shorten the front of the engine box] so you have enough room to install a bench seat. 302 was a common swap so the V6 should be a cake walk :lol:
But add a front disc brake up-grade to your project list and new king pins.
Davew


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PostPosted: February 9, 2021, 12:35 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback guys... your comments are right on.. I need to open my mind to using -either- a 4 or a V6... Reflecting on it, the V6 does in fact seem the better choice as pointed out, if not simply for the packaging benefits, then for getting me my power goals normally aspirated.. I went back and edited the subject/ question to include a V6 platform :cheers:

So now I go off to learn the ways of the aluminum V6.. this is a platform I've never used before, so we'll see where this goes.. My biggest issue is I want this to be an easy wiring situation to make run.. it was an ordeal getting the 2.0 Ecotec (direct injection) to run in the Volvo.. this time I want an easy 4-5 wire hook up and run it stock- set it, forget it.

Auto tranny behind the V6.. easy-peasy to get an overdrive unit to behave outside of it's donor car?

--ccrunner

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Dean

1972 Honda N600 Restomod "ccrunner's N600 VFR800 repower"

1963 Volvo P1800 Restomod
http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=16309

1959 Berkeley SE492 Restomod...
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19397

"ccrunner's 1960 MGA coupe Restomod" found on MGExp.com


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PostPosted: February 9, 2021, 1:01 pm 
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Why stand alone? I'd be looking for something that is easy to get the factory computer to run the engine/trans outside of the factory shell.

Is your desired power/torque at the crank or wheels?

Is 100 pounds more important than physical size/packaging?

Where do you want your power band?

DOHC engines are physically large for their displacement. They also tend to be built to make their power higher in the rev range.

While the ones in question are pretty much all iron block, I'd actually argue that a semi-modern pushrod V6 might actually better suit the character of the build you describe... Like Ford 4.2, GM 3800, or GM 3900?

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PostPosted: February 9, 2021, 1:33 pm 
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Driven5 wrote:
Why stand alone? I'd be looking for something that is easy to get the factory computer to run the engine/trans outside of the factory shell. YES! This is EXACTLY what I'm after.... I think I'm misusing the term stand alone... all I want is to use OEM parts/ECM, and trick them into running in my vehicle

Is your desired power/torque at the crank or wheels? My thought was to achieve about 200/250 torque at the crank (not as concerned with HP, and I'm looking for a respectable level of grunt for when she's loaded/hauling stuff)

Is 100 pounds more important than physical size/packaging? Packaging trumps weight.. smaller package is better.. surely I don't want an 800 pound motor, but a little extra weight is ok if the tradeoff is that the lump is small-ish..

Where do you want your power band? Low/mid... fat/low torque curve..I will not be racing/wringing this motor out- this isn't the vehicle for that.. she'll be a workhorse/cruiser..

DOHC engines are physically large for their displacement. They also tend to be built to make their power higher in the rev range.

While the ones in question are pretty much all iron block, I'd actually argue that a pushrod V6 might suit the character of the build you describe more... Like Ford 4.2, GM 3800, or GM 3900?

I'm wide open to suggestions.. I recently went and looked at an E100 with a 302, and it was 'ok,' but it struck me that I want to shove the engine back in the vehicle, and that I can create the truck I want without using a 12mpg V8.. Reliability and decent mileage are important.. raw HP is not.. really just after a somewhat modern injected motor that's easy to transplant and make run, get the job done, has an automatic OD transmission, and is proven reliable

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Dean

1972 Honda N600 Restomod "ccrunner's N600 VFR800 repower"

1963 Volvo P1800 Restomod
http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=16309

1959 Berkeley SE492 Restomod...
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19397

"ccrunner's 1960 MGA coupe Restomod" found on MGExp.com


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PostPosted: February 9, 2021, 3:02 pm 
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Joined: January 1, 2012, 12:44 pm
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Location: Boise, Idaho
I used a '95 5.0L in a '65 Mustang with the stock ECU. Wiring was easy (but they do require the catalyst/s if it has pre and post cat O2 sensors. If just pre-cat O2 sensor then cats aren't req'd ). The trick is getting a system that doesn't have the anti-theft stuff so deeply embedded. So, for a Ford, I think that means '96 or earlier. No idea about GM.


EDIT: Looks like the 3.8L TBird V6 has only front O2 sensors from '80's through '95.


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PostPosted: February 9, 2021, 5:24 pm 
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They use Subarus in dune buggys all the time, there must be some simple engine management packages avail for these apps. May have more torque than an inline four as well...


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PostPosted: February 11, 2021, 6:09 pm 
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I'd take a hard look at the GM 3800 V6 listed above. It's a very good pushrod motor - which will fit better than a DOHC V6. They are abundant and can be had with a 5-speed already attached. You'd be hard pressed to easily meet your torque goals with a NA 4.

But that might be TOO easy ;). The cool choice would be the Atlas 4200 inline 6. More trouble to setup, but they're a wonderful motor that would sing in an econoline.


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PostPosted: February 12, 2021, 10:35 am 
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The Subaru option could have some merit. The flat 4 or 6 would likely have a lower overall height & not intrude on cargo space as much a an inline or V engine.
Or, just go whole-hog & put in a Porsche flat 6 :twisted:

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PostPosted: February 12, 2021, 10:59 am 
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For anything Ford and modern, get a copy of Forscan to do the immobilizer stuff.

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