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while working on the design of my single seat BEC "Austin 7 Special" styled project i started sketching another project idea

as some may already noticed i do like 1930 style cars... especially the "boat-tailed" sleek racers of that time
one of my all time favorite is the 1935 Ford/Miller Indy special;




looking at some of its pictures i noticed the already significant "set forward" driver position ...
so i told myself "just a little wider body and the seats moved forward a couple more inches and i could fit a mid-engine drivetrain in it"
(complete FWD transverse V6 mounted as RWD in "Midlana" style)

however, there are a couple things that i dont like about the Ford/Miller Indy;
like the way too deep driver side entry cutout, the extremely flared cowl as well as the not very attractive grille shell...



so i had this idea to may change the nose to something inspired by this art-deco "Socal Plating" custom `35 Ford;



probably less but wider (SS or polished aluminum) bars like on this OZE `37 hotrod:



anyway .... here is a rendering of how i envision the car (shortened boat-tail & wb as well as lowered) ;



i`m thinking two seat, 88-90" WB, all aluminum body over steel tubing spaceframe, late model 3-3.5 liter V6 (or 2-2.5 liter turbo I-4)
radiator, tank and battery up front to balance things out ...

what do you guys think about this ?!?

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- Stephan -

I think I've seen this Miller in person. It won awards at the Road America show a few years back as I recall.

The Indy cars of the era, as I recall, were supposed to be 2-person cars. "To kill them twice as fast" the morbid joke went, and some years that was true. IT was also the "Junkyard" era -- a term hated by Indy's historian -- because it tried to mandate OEM parts into the formula to get auto makers back to Indy (something repeated off and on since).

There is an active group of guys who build replicas of cars of that era, and I'm relatively sure that if you catch Donald Davidson at the IMS Museum on a good day he could help you with some resources as well.

I'm gonna guess that the low rise on the cockpit was so that the driver would be thrown out in case of a crash, and failing that, be able to get out from under a rolled over car before the flames got too bad. Just a guess tho.

IF I was to do a "just for fun" I'd certainly make it a bit wider, unless you have a skinny driver and only want skinny passengers. I'm gonna guess that the original position of the oil tank is somewhere near the passenger's seat too, which might be uncomfortable. AS I recall, the supercharger is under the dash in that car, and the "Fuel pump" probably consisted of an air pump to pressurize the tank. Just a few things that I'd probably not keep historically accurate.

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***************
Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

geek
yes, it would be "just for fun" ... not a authentic reproduction

basically standard street legal midi locost mechanics wrapped with a `35 inspired body
kinda a alternative look to the standard Lotus seven styled locost

oh yes, it needs to be a little wider then the (staggered seat) skinny original ;



i`m thinking to "bow" the teardrop shape in a wider arc ... think Auburn Speedster without fenders ;



the track will be wider as well (dictated by the driveline donor)

i measured my Nissan Maxima engine/trans i have at hand;
the body would need to be ~ 34" wide at the engine , so (quickly sketched on paper) a nice smooth arch should give me ~ 42" at the seats

the V6 engine needs ~ 24" from center axle to the front (seat back/fire wall) ... i think that should be very doable without the mid section looking too long.

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- Stephan -

I think it looks great although I do wonder if you have enough room in front of the axle to get the driver positioned as you show. Regardless, this looks to be an awesome project!

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-Keith

I do like mine ...

I just realised what you did there and I like it!

mid engine = driver position close to the polar center

sitting too close to the rear axle is one thing that i dont like about front engine cars.

Acer
starting at center rear axle i figured ~24" for engine, ~48" for cockpit, ~12" for the fuel tank plus some room for the inboard C/O shocks = ~88" wheelbase.
steering rack would be a front steer (MustangII or Chevette) ...

what gives me trouble is the radiator ;
i would like to fit a decent size rad (maybe a early mustang V8 one that is 22" x 20")
one possible spot would be right over the steering rack , but i have to draw it up to see if there is room
the pointy nose gets narrow quickly:



ideally i would prefer a location after the C/O`s so that the rad does not heat up the shocks ...

need to thinker with that some more

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- Stephan -

one detail that makes the `35 Miller/Ford so interesting (for a modern replica) is that it was waaaaay ahead of its time with its front and rear independent suspension



i`m still trying to figure out how exactly they made it work
but i guess the (cast aluminum ?!?) wing shaped blade is the UCA
it completely covers the driveshaft & steering/track links and i guess the LCA is enclosing it on the underside
i think they probably used transverse leaf springs



hmmmm.... maybe too complex for a locost
but an at least similar clean "aero" look could be possible with (steel sheetmetal) fabricated UCA "wings" covering regular tubular LCA`s

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- Stephan -

A couple of radiator comments. ..
It's frequently better to have the radiator opening a bit smaller than the radiator face itself, provided you allow space for the air charge to slow down just in front of the radiator (a large pressure enclosed area).
You'd be surprised at the cooling ability of the Honda half width radiator. Sheesh, those things keep V8's cool in a 7 I think of of the guys is even using one on his 13B.

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"There are times when a broken tool is better than a sound one, or a twisted personality more useful than a whole one.
For instance, a whole beer bottle isn't half the weapon that half a beer bottle is ..." Randall Garrett

I'm using the ubiquitous Honda Civic aluminum dual row radiator in my 13B powered Locost. It does a fine job. Less than 55 bucks delivered on eBay. Look for the ones with 1.25 hose necks. Get the 14" fan.

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

jack, RX ; thanks for the suggestion

wow ... right now the Civic rad is on sale at Speed Daddys for 49.99 with free shipping

so i guess i`m overthinking this again
i guess i`m still in sandrail mode; with the high rolling resistance of sand and the constant WOT you need LARGE cooling capacity

yeah, the 14.5x16.5" Civic radiator would fit very nicely into the nose ...
and with the grille opening/cover running way back i should also be able to discharge the hot air nicely.

i was thinking of using baffles to guide the hot air around the (steel enclosed crosslinked PU bladder) tank and out the sides,
so a narrow tank would be "better" ... do you guys think a (18.00W x 11.75L x 16.25H) 14 gallon tank is too small
or should i consider the larger (26.00W x 11.75L x 16.25H) 20 gallon tank ???

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- Stephan -

For a street car, I found my 5 gallon tank too small. I upped it to 12 gallon. I get lousy MPG's (~20) so the extra sized tank was welcomed. You don't say where you are located. If you are 150 miles between gas stops........

_________________
Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

just moved to Cedar City UT... i`m at 5500 ft surrounded by nice twisty mountain/canyon roads ... so i guess my mileage will be bad as well

as much as i love my plan for the smaller BEC Austin 7 Special i slowly start to realize that i can build this midi version a lot cheaper ...

i think i will work out the two chassis/body`s on CAD simultaneously over the winter, but probably start prowling for parts to build this one first.

i do have a 3 liter Maxima V6 drivetrain at hand to take measurements , but hopefully i may find a newer 3.5+ liter wrecked car in the spring

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- Stephan -

I remember driving up the twisty road behind you to Brian Head ski area. There are a TON of deer that like to jump out in front of you at twilight. If you build a car and drive that, be very careful!

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

oh yes, going up the Cedar brake is a very nice road ...
back when i was still living in CA i always traveled across this area on my way to Moab for 4-wheeling and loved it.
feels very rural, but with paved roads and 5 minutes to downtown Cedar City

oh yes, twilight is a bad driving time around here ... i avoid it even with my Truck (even a bigrig bumper does not help much if you strike a deer )


more pictures (i do like to search/ post pics to visualize things )

i made a couple small changes to my photoshop;



i enlarged & lowered the entry and also lowered the hood as well as the beltline a little

the leather covered cockpit opening is something i really like (however, probably not in red leather )
i`m thinking something along this line;



it is also a (relative ) simple & cheap way to finis the opening cutout without complex sheetmetal work

over at HAMB i spotted this windscreen on an Austin 7S (sorry, large pic`s)

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1827480&d=1357136665
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1827482&d=1357136665

i like the look and it seems fairly simple to make (however, i first need to check on legal requirements)
probably not as round on top ... i think oval or with a flat edge on top would look even better

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- Stephan -